Mike Catherwood has spent more than two decades sober, with fitness helping provide structure along the way. His new book, A Meathead's Guide to Salvation, gives him and Tab a starting point for a question that reaches beyond the gym: how do you build habits you can actually keep living with?
Many listeners know Mike as Psycho Mike from Loveline, the radio show he co-hosted with Dr. Drew Pinsky. On his return to Splitting Hairs, he brings together the experiences behind his work in recovery, training, and writing. He and Tab talk about discipline, body image, parenting, and the everyday choices involved in building a sustainable life.
The nutrition discussion stays close to the questions people wrestle with when they try to make a change. How much attention should protein get? What can tracking food for a short time teach someone about portions? How do raw and cooked foods, dairy, digestion, and absorption enter the picture? Mike shares his approach to making those decisions without turning every meal into a complicated project.
Their shared interest in music takes them through punk, metal, and the creative instincts that make someone stand out. Loveline stories lead into comedy, the Jackass era, shared laughter, and recognizing talent before a wider audience catches on. Tab and Mike follow the people and influences that have stayed with them, along with the curiosity that keeps them interested in new work.
Mike is now putting those interests into writing, training, and teaching. The book brings his thinking into one place, while recovery, family, and fitness give him a daily opportunity to put it into practice. He returns to the work of making a life that he can sustain, one habit and one decision at a time.
Mike's nutrition and recovery experiences are his own. This episode is informational and is not individualized medical or addiction-treatment advice.
In their own words
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Follow along with Tab Salsman and Mike Catherwood as they talk about recovery, fitness, music, and A Meathead’s Guide to Salvation.
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Transcribed from the source recording. Timestamps may differ from the edited video. Some speaker labels are inferred from context.
Mike Catherwood
I, uh, fitness for me too is like, it was much more than like abs and biceps. It was like, it really became a vital part of my recovery and staying clean.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
By the way, 23 years today.
Tab Salsman
Congratulations.
Mike Catherwood
Thank you. Yeah. I can't, I forgot. I almost forgotten it was driving over here was, I was like, it's, it's October 23rd.
Mike Catherwood
Oh yeah.
Tab Salsman
And you're back.
Mike Catherwood
I'm back.
Tab Salsman
Thank you for, um, doing this again. Dude. You needed a haircut,
Mike Catherwood
obviously.
Tab Salsman
It's amazing. It was like almost two years ago. And then your hair's only grown this much in two years.
Mike Catherwood
I know.
Tab Salsman
It's a little wild.
Mike Catherwood
I, I, well that is not one area where I will hold back or be bashful.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Uh, if I didn't cut my hair in two years, it would be, it would be like David Lee Roth and his prime.
Mike Catherwood
It'd be down by my waist. I, I, all the griping I have, especially as a meathead, all the griping I have about my genetics. 'cause my mom's four 10, my dad's very overweight and has been my whole life. Um, but I ain't complaining. 'cause my hair and, and I think, I think skin too. I just. I'm like, I'll take it. I'm, my, my hair grows so fast and I have a lot, I don't seem to be at 46.
Mike Catherwood
I don't seem to be crossing that line where it's not a problem. 'cause I also, all my peers are dealing with that and I'm also like super sensitive to it. 'cause I, that would suck. Losing your hair would be really, really hard to deal with, you know?
Tab Salsman
I think so. I, I, you know, the, the, um, even though like, I would never be able to have him as a guest because he's follicly challenged, but the question I would want to ask Billy Corgan
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Would be like, what would it, what was it like to like go through losing your hair at the height of your career at the same time? Yeah. Like that had to be like, we've made it.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
But like, you know, now you're gonna lose your hair full
Mike Catherwood
cost.
Tab Salsman
I like, I would want, like, I would like to know somebody who did that.
Tab Salsman
Like you could have
Mike Catherwood
Jordan
Tab Salsman
who, Michael Jordan.
Mike Catherwood
Do you know that if Michael Jordan didn't start shaving his head, he would be like full like crown baldness?
Tab Salsman
Yeah. I mean, you could just get hair transplants like LeBron did.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. But not in 1990 or when, you know what I'm saying? Like, peak Jordan was when he started shaving his head because, and also, uh, Kelly Slater.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I always, I always thought like it would've been awesome if like a guy with hair, like Mr. Belding was treading people to death. You know? He should have, he should have committed that. Yeah. That would
Tab Salsman
great.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
I wonder if Kelly Slater can still grow the size of his hair.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Oh dude. He should just totally,
Mike Catherwood
that's a good question.
Mike Catherwood
'cause he should, if you're funny, I.
Tab Salsman
We should just ask, uh, we should just try and ask him.
Mike Catherwood
I don't, I don't know Kelly at all. I don't know. I've never met the man.
Tab Salsman
No, but
Mike Catherwood
I've been at a party with him, but I never introduced myself.
Tab Salsman
Oh, you should have introduced him.
Mike Catherwood
He's he's one of those guys Yeah. I can think of off the top of my head.
Mike Catherwood
Uh, having the luxury of being, uh, around celebrities. He's one of like four or five guys where I met, or I was like, whoa. You're, you're, it's awkward how good looking you are.
Tab Salsman
Really?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Julian McMahon, who I think just passed away from Nip Top, he was most famous from Nip. He came into Loveline and I was like, I knew he's on tv.
Mike Catherwood
He's a good looking guy. He walked in the door. I was like, holy fuck. You are so handsome. Yeah. Eres elbow's uncomfortably handsome.
Tab Salsman
Aris elbow
Mike Catherwood
Uhhuh. He's uncomfortably. That
Tab Salsman
is who I want to play Spawn.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. What would that be?
Tab Salsman
He like, they want Jamie Fox.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And I know it has to be Iris Elbow.
Mike Catherwood
Well, I don't know much about the character Spawn.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Is spawn at all funny? I mean, if spawns more of a dead pooley thing. Jamie Fox is the
Tab Salsman
No, he's more serious
Mike Catherwood
if he's dark than y.
Tab Salsman
And, and, and I also think the physical stature of Res Elba is just like on screen. You don't need to do these up angles to make Jamie Foot Fox. Okay. Look like six three.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah,
Tab Salsman
it's true. Sorry. So, Edgar's Elba, uh, Julian McMahon.
Mike Catherwood
Julian McMahon is definitely, yes. Uh, there's this guy, I believe he's had a horrible controversy too. So I, it pains me to say
Tab Salsman
Handsome is handsome.
Mike Catherwood
His name was, he was on scandal with Carrie. Washington, but he WI think he broke in on the Stomp the Yard movies.
Mike Catherwood
His name was Columbus Short, that was his name. Black dude.
Tab Salsman
Dunno who It's,
Mike Catherwood
he's so good looking. I was like, whoa, God, this is not okay. Yeah. Like you're that good looking. Um, Kelly Slater too. I remember I was at a party, I was at I Kid Rock's House in Malibu.
Tab Salsman
Oh God.
Mike Catherwood
And uh, Kelly Slater was there. And I just remember, like, I didn't talk to him, I didn't approach him.
Mike Catherwood
I just remember I was like seeing him. I was like, God damn, you're, you're so good looking. And that talented, like he's goat status, you know?
Tab Salsman
Every now and then there's people I've been just completely just like, wow.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Years ago when they were dating, I met Matthew McConaughey and Penelope Cruz.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And, uh, she is 10 times more beautiful than you would ever seen in any photo. Any,
Mike Catherwood
you there's those people that there's real life them. Yeah. And then there's
Tab Salsman
on screen.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah, on screen.
Tab Salsman
Like I don't think I've ever seen a photo or any movie that can accurately depict how beautiful, like jaw dropping. Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Beautiful. She was,
Mike Catherwood
and she's my type too, so I could easily see how I would be moved by her.
Tab Salsman
Me and my wife's half Puerto Rican. So clearly I have the thing for that Latin.
Mike Catherwood
See, it's weird when weird when it catches you by, by surprise though. 'cause I was on, this is now, this wasn't recent. This was in the nineties, sometime late nineties though.
Mike Catherwood
Uh, I was on a plane and the. Uh, Jennifer Anderson was in first class.
Tab Salsman
Oh, wow.
Mike Catherwood
And I obviously, I was like watching friends at the time and I was like, you know, I was probably high school and like maybe college age.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And obviously thought like, oh, that's an attractive person. Yeah. But it was never like, she's not my thing.
Mike Catherwood
And per I was like, holy fuck. Her eyes are so bright blue. She's so hot in person. Yeah. I couldn't bel that was the one that like, really, and Rihanna too. Ri obviously Rihanna's hot.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
But when I was at the Grammy's interviewing people backseat, I was talking to Rihanna, I couldn't believe how hot she was.
Mike Catherwood
Like I couldn't wrap my head around how good looking she was.
Tab Salsman
No. Um, I met Heather Graham.
Mike Catherwood
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Tab Salsman
She was, uh, as pretty as you would imagine.
Mike Catherwood
And by the way, she's hot now and I really want, no, I'm serious. B this is why because, and I, I, it makes me appreciate me, appreciate my wife because there, it's gotta be so hard a, being a woman and dealing with aging in the way, uh, society put puts pressures, right?
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
A woman in Hollywood, they, and they all go cuckoo and they do crazy stuff to their face and everything. Mm-hmm. Heather Graham looks like as if she's just now she's Heather Graham at this age. Yeah. And she looks amazing, you know?
Tab Salsman
Yeah. She was, she was really beautiful. Um, I can't say she was the friendliest.
Tab Salsman
Um, I'll just leave that for another conversation. Uh, and then, um. Hannah, Nicole Smith.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
She, I get what? She was stunned.
Mike Catherwood
You get what you did. Yeah.
Tab Salsman
You get it like, like, it's like a take your breath away. Like, oh, oh, I get it now. Like, like you think you get that? Yeah. Like when you see her, like Lisa, she's beautiful.
Tab Salsman
Like, like anybody who says, not like they're blind, but when you run her, and by the way, she was, she was coming back from like that, uh, she was just starting to slim down where she had gotten. Really?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Really large. Which is fine, right? But, uh, she was not at her like quote, like fighting weight, they call it, right?
Mike Catherwood
No. When she was like, playmate That
Tab Salsman
was, yes. It wasn't that it
Mike Catherwood
couldn't believe
Tab Salsman
it, but like, you just, you just looked at it, you're like, oh, I don't care. Like, like who This girl like was just knock out.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And I get it. I was like, I get it. Like every now and then there's those people who walk the celebrities and you go, holy fuck,
Mike Catherwood
there's plenty of people.
Mike Catherwood
And the the way, the way I was trying to explain it where like, there's plenty of people, and by the way, this goes for men too. I, I let off with men.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Um, uh, I don't know what that says about me. Um, but there's a, there's obviously beautiful people and you meet people and you're like, oh, you're very at attract.
Mike Catherwood
There's people that are so attractive that something happened where it's like, this is awkward.
Tab Salsman
Yeah, it is awkward.
Mike Catherwood
It's like me, like if even if they weren't celebrities,
Tab Salsman
it would be awkward.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. I, I, well, no. In fact, I know for a fact because I, my friend had a, a wife, they're now divorced, but my friend had wife.
Mike Catherwood
She was so ridiculously hot that it was. Kind of, it was just, it made things weird.
Tab Salsman
And even just like talk to her as your
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. And not, like, I was not like, it made things weird. Like, I can't control my urges. 'cause I, I'm a, I'm a, I'm attracted, it made things weird. It's like I, I started to get conscious of like what I was saying.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I didn't know. I, I was over there. I was like, I wonder if you'll like this food. I was like, why would I, I'm like asking what I'm, I was like, oh, it's because she's a frigging perfect 10. She was a Dutch immigrant and she was a model. And I just like, and he didn't warn me.
Tab Salsman
He didn't say like, by the way.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. And, and she's six foot one. And I was like, oh, whoa. What the hell? When I met her, you know, and I think maybe that threw me for a loop,
Tab Salsman
you know? Yeah, yeah. No, I know. Every now and then when you like meet somebody that's like that, you're just like, oh, I get it now. Matthew McConaughey. I was like, man, this guy, I'm like handsome.
Mike Catherwood
He's, he and Roland are my two. Like, I don't wanna say idols, but they're, they're what I look to as like markers for doing it. Right. Because there's plenty of people and I don't want to name names 'cause I'm gonna start getting shitty about it, but there's plenty of dudes in Hollywood or models or whatever that they were amazing when they're 20.
Mike Catherwood
Mm-hmm. But they had a teeny bopper hotness to that.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And then they get become men. You're like, we are just a dude now.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
I'm pretty sure Josh Roland and Matt McConaughey are hotter now than they've ever been before. Like the, at becoming men has made them
Tab Salsman
more. Yeah. There's a whole like, aging like wine.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. Yeah. I feel that way about, uh, I realize most of my favorite movies. Have Brad Pitt.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And he's just like, I'm like, this is a guy who refuses to let a number define him.
Mike Catherwood
Well, also, Brad Pitt is exceptional. I don't know if there's a female equivalent where Brad Pitt does the Oh, it's awkward how good looking they are.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. He does it on camera.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Like, I remember seeing Felba and Louise and I was a very straight young boy, and I was still like, what the fuck is this guy's? I don't know if I've ever seen a guy like that.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I've never seen someone so perfect looking. Yeah. I I, I really remember being like, I don't even understand this guy.
Tab Salsman
Yeah, no, it, it, uh, I never, it's so funny. I recently, when I say recently, like within the last year, I, uh, I never watched Legends of the Fall. Yeah. I just ruled it as a chick flick because all the girls talked about this movie when I was in high school or whatever. So I watched it 'cause I'm like, you know, I should just give it a shot one great movie.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm. It's ano like how it's shot. I'm like, this was shot in film. It looks better than half the crap we see now. Mm. Everybody knows everything is like color graded and blue.
Mike Catherwood
I don't like, well, and also,
Tab Salsman
and it's like, it's all like golds and warm tones and looks like Earth. Uh,
Mike Catherwood
you know how people, okay, I will tell you.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. Film Yeah. Is the one thing I'm a hipster about, dude. Because you know how people get all like, oh dude, you could hear records. There's the pure impurity they get. I'm like, shut the fuck up. Gimme digital. Gimme a, the perfect sounding cd. Or, or
Tab Salsman
actually CD is the perfect audio form.
Mike Catherwood
That's what I feel like.
Mike Catherwood
No,
Tab Salsman
no, it is. It, it really is. It's like nothing tops up,
Mike Catherwood
but. I, I remember, like I remember distinctly Yeah. When I was like one of the last people to get a DVD player.
Tab Salsman
Oh.
Mike Catherwood
And I, and I got the first DVDI got was the Matrix, and I put it in and I said, I don't, it's too clear I don't like this. I don't like digital film.
Mike Catherwood
I need the impurities of like, real film that that's my take. That's the only thing I'm a hipster about.
Tab Salsman
Yeah, no, it does, it, it changes everything. And, and simply with cameras too, because the resolution is just so much higher. Like you can take film any film and blow it up and, uh, as long as you're not shooting in like 1600 film io, you're able to not have this graininess, which you're only able to now capture with a mirrorless camera.
Tab Salsman
And even with that, it almost becomes hyper realistic. It almost has this AI rendering quality to it that I just,
Mike Catherwood
which if you're doing, I, I guess if there's certain projects or certain artwork that might work, but that's product
Tab Salsman
photography. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. But like to capture people, it just, uh, like, uh, a guy I know a guy who does tin type photography.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm. Are you familiar with that stuff? Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. Absolutely.
Tab Salsman
Oh, dude. Like
Mike Catherwood
my wife and daughter and I got a, got a shotgun.
Tab Salsman
Where is it? The one, uh, off sixth Street?
Mike Catherwood
No, this was, uh, still in, in Southern California. It was in Long Beach.
Tab Salsman
You gotta check out Lumiere. They, uh, yeah. You got, there's a guy that does it at uh, uh, just Justine's.
Tab Salsman
Okay. The restaurant. Justine. Yeah. Yeah. He does it right there.
Mike Catherwood
That's awesome.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I find, I find that so pretty.
Tab Salsman
I think it's way cool.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
So fascinating. Uh, we've completely digressed from the, from you need a haircut? Yes. Do you want a meathead haircut?
Mike Catherwood
No.
Tab Salsman
Should we, should we call you like Mehan Mike Ka wood, or, or, it's funny because it's psycho Mike now like a dead name to you.
Tab Salsman
I don't wanna dead name you. I don't wanna be rude.
Mike Catherwood
Well, psycho Mike was never a name to me to begin with,
Tab Salsman
but
Mike Catherwood
they had
Tab Salsman
said that,
Mike Catherwood
oh yeah. No, no, no. I think that's why like, and I fall, it's very classic because it's a, a real thing. It's a radio nickname. And what people don't understand about radio nicknames is it's very pure, you can't give it to yourself.
Tab Salsman
Okay.
Mike Catherwood
Someone has to give it to you.
Tab Salsman
Okay. I didn't know that.
Mike Catherwood
You can't like it.
Tab Salsman
Oh, you have to, you have to
Mike Catherwood
like baba buoy or Yeah, you baba buoy. Yeah. People, people call you that. That's a you be, that's like Rock and Ron and all that stuff. Get some program director in 1968 heard this guy's name Ron Liebowitz and he is like, you're Rockin Ron and Rockin Ron was probably like, fuck that. But you're Rockin'Ron
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Jimmy)Kimmel gave me the name Psycho Mike Really? He, he was instrumental. I don't know if it was simply, but I was doing a particular bit, a bit that we will talk about off the air because I've been actually legally, literally talk, we can't talk about it.
Tab Salsman
Okay.
Mike Catherwood
Um, uh, but it, it was one of these, and look, I wasn't, there was no like harassment or anything, but it was, it was gross. And, um, a company actually has levied at the time, this is 2005 or something. Yeah. Levied, uh, uh, some type of legal action against Viacom at the time who owned K Rock, so I'm supposed to not talk about it, but we'll talk about it.
Mike Catherwood
Um,
Tab Salsman
no, you're not gonna talk about it. You're
Mike Catherwood
gonna, and I did, we did this bit and we did the blah, blah, blah. And Jimmy)Kimmel was the guest on Kevin and Bean.
Tab Salsman
Okay.
Mike Catherwood
Who, by the way, Jimmy Kimmel was the sports guy for Kevin and Bean. I
Tab Salsman
remember
Mike Catherwood
that. Before he got into television. Before he, before man show or anything.
Mike Catherwood
So they obviously had a very, very close, tight relationship. Yeah. So Jimmy comes on to promote his late night show, which it was just getting underway.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And he was doing whatever he could to promote it. And he came on as a guest. I'm like, I couldn't believe that Jimmy Kimmel's near me because I'm, I grew up watching the Man Show and I'm like, this guy's the man.
Mike Catherwood
You know? And I, this bit goes on the Air. Kimmel is part of the people in the green room listening to this. And after the show they're thanking Kimmel and you like, and, and he's like, yeah, thanks a lot. Nice to meet the psycho over here. Who did fill in the blank. And they're like, and Kevin of Kevin, he said, psycho Mike.
Mike Catherwood
And that's like kind of where it took off. And, uh, yeah. So I, I, I did not, you know why I don't like Psycho Mike?
Tab Salsman
Right.
Mike Catherwood
It rolls off the tongue and it's great. Yeah. It's memorable. It's,
Tab Salsman
it's so easy
Mike Catherwood
because all humans who meet me, who listen to me on the radio Yeah. Whether they like me or not on the radio.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. They meet me and they're like, you're psycho Mike. 'cause they expect a wwe e wrestler, like Giant. Yeah. Dude. With a Mohawk and an affliction shirt. Everyone, every 100. They're like, that's psycho mic. I can't tell you how many thousands of people have been at Weenie Roast or whatever. Like, wait, you're, I was like, yes I am.
Mike Catherwood
I know. I look. Your accountant's son, but I am, I am like a Mike, you know?
Tab Salsman
Yeah. I mean, uh, the first time I met you was on a Halloween night at the Hollywood Athletics Club.
Mike Catherwood
Oh dude. That was a fun
Tab Salsman
party. Yeah. You were dressed as uh, Don Draper. Don
Mike Catherwood
Draper.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I was Don Draper.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. Yeah. I have photos. It
Mike Catherwood
was like first season of Mad Men.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. I have, I have photos of that. Of you from, from the Ons. I'm like, holy fuck. There's a, there's, there's, there's Mike. Who knows? Uh, Jaso You. And
Mike Catherwood
then, and then, oh
Tab Salsman
God. And I was only there because I was friends with Deb by Sunrise.
Mike Catherwood
Alright, dude. I love those dudes.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. So like Ryan and Amir, I've known them since forever.
Tab Salsman
And so that was the night. And then I didn't drink that night 'cause I drive back to Newport Beach, and so Chester and I were sober the entire night. Like g like literally just like hung out the whole night. Like there was like, everyone was just doing their, you know, rock and roll thing. And him and I are just like, he's like, yeah.
Tab Salsman
He's like, I really just wish I was at home with my kids
Mike Catherwood
right now. I know.
Tab Salsman
And I was like, I bet you, you were, you do
Mike Catherwood
God rest his soul. Like every
Tab Salsman
one of the nicest guys I've
Mike Catherwood
ever, and also as like, from like a recovery standpoint, you know, I would never in a million years name names, um, but there's so many cool celebrities that I got to know through that, that I was like, yeah, well fuck that guy.
Mike Catherwood
I mean. He, he was full of shit. He didn't, he didn't try ever. Yeah. He'd show up at a meeting once by court order.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And then
Tab Salsman
piece
Mike Catherwood
that go, immediately go back to slam heroin. You know, like, I can't tell me how many, when something would befall certain celebrities through addiction, and I was like, God, rest of all, I, I don't wanna talk shit.
Mike Catherwood
But like, I, yeah. We all saw that coming. Chester fucking tried so hard. It would hurt me so much, man, when he passed, because not only did he try, but he would come on Loveline and be fully open.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
For the sake of people listening. He's like, dude, this is not, I know it looks cool. Like the rockstar thing.
Mike Catherwood
He's like the, I, I hurt so much man from this and it's hard. And so when he died I was like, shit, it really rocked me.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. We, uh, I remember we were at, um, our mutual friend's house watching the final season of Dexter. Mm-hmm. Trinity killer and it ends. So if, if anybody hasn't seen it, kind of spoil this for you, it ends with the mother of Dexter's child being dead in the, in the bathtub being murdered and the baby's just sitting there crying, like alone.
Tab Salsman
And it's really sad. Yeah. I just look over Chester's bawling. Yeah. Because he's like imagining one of his kids in this situation. Yeah. Like, and, and he told me this and I'm like, I'm like, man, we're like, are you all right? He's like, I just can't, I can't shake it. Like, it was, it was really interesting to see, this is like a personal moment.
Tab Salsman
I've never actually talked about this like really publicly or anything like that, but it was a really, not just a humanizing thing, but you're like, wow, like. You, it didn't affect me because I didn't have children.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
But now I now having children. Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I have children. Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And now I'm, I think back when I watched movies and the kids now orphaned or whatever, I, uh, it affects me.
Tab Salsman
Like, I, I understand why he broke down.
Mike Catherwood
It was, uh,
Tab Salsman
I get it.
Mike Catherwood
It was, uh, God, what's the name of that movie? It's a good film. Uh, Clint Eastwood movie starring Sean Penn about Boston, uh, kind of a, is it Mystic River? Mystic River. Thank you. Mystic River. Mystic River comes out, I go see it.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
2005 ish. 2006 ish.
Mike Catherwood
Right. So I come back to Kevin Bean Monday.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
What'd you do this weekend, Kevin? Uh, this and that and that. What'd you do? Oh, I saw this movie. You should check it out. Missy River. He goes, no way. Why? I have kids. I can't watch that shit.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
I know what it's about and I'm not gonna watch it. I was like, dude, but it's fake.
Mike Catherwood
I mean, you, he's like, no, I don't, I would not enjoy myself. It would be a very unenjoyable experience to watch murdered teenage girls. Yeah. Uh, 'cause I have teenage and I was like blown away. Right. Money. The sports guy walks in, why'd you guys do this? We get, I was like, I would see Mystic River. This guy won't see it.
Mike Catherwood
I'm telling him it's good. Chomp pens on fire. Like, usual.
Tab Salsman
I'm not gonna see that
Mike Catherwood
movie. I'm like, what the fuck? Why not? He's like, I got a daughter. I'm not gonna, yeah. And I was like, blown away. I wasn't talking shit to him, but I was, I was, I, it was perplexing. Right. Sure enough. Have a kid, have a daughter.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Go back to money. And Kevin, I was like, I totally understand. Yeah. I, I can't even watch like, forensic files and dateline and shit anymore. Yeah. 'cause I have a whole different view of the world. Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. No, ch children change you.
Mike Catherwood
Mm-hmm. I hope so.
Tab Salsman
Well, I was just gonna say, I feel like if they don't, that's, that, that's kind of a concern sometimes.
Tab Salsman
Like, I put them before me on anything.
Mike Catherwood
I don't wanna talk about stuff where I go. I'm making it out to sound like I'm better than these people. Yeah. But there's this weird thing that happens where I go like, what? You, you were saying children change you, or at least they should. Yeah. Okay. When you, people don't, it doesn't, I'm like, what the fuck?
Mike Catherwood
The same thing happens is like, I don't know. I'm by no means like some Pollyannish uh, prudish dude. I fucked everything that walked for 10 years of my life when I was a single guy, you know? But I've had like five, not a, not one. I've had like five to 10 experiences where I'll be at, like, something from my daughter's school.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I'll be at a, a, a, a dinner with like couples, right?
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
And my wife's with me. I'm looking at the guy's wife.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
And he's talking to me about like banging strippers. He's like, the other night I met, I met, this one, went to Vegas with my boys and I, who was fucking this world. I'm like, wait, is that, is that your wife right there?
Tab Salsman
I I, I've had guy clients. In the past, over the years, have those conversations with me. 'cause they're on business.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And they know
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
I do their wife's hair.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And they look at it like we're both dudes. You know? I
Mike Catherwood
don't, I was like, I don't, I was like, don't get married then. I don't get me wrong. I, I understand being a poon hound.
Mike Catherwood
I totally support that. Hey, I was one,
Tab Salsman
I told everybody I was committed.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
I was committed a hundred percent when I was in a relationship. I was, I was a hundred percent committed to being single.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
So we gotta figure out what are we doing with the, so what are we doing? Are you are, what's your normal day-to-day stuff?
Tab Salsman
Are you doing a lot of the juujitsu that you, uh, like to do in boxing? You're doing some of that?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah, I, uh,
Tab Salsman
yeah. You're doing that pumping
Mike Catherwood
iron and all that
Tab Salsman
fun stuff. Yeah. You're like, this is crazy.
Mike Catherwood
I know.
Tab Salsman
Dude, this is pretty John Stamos. I wish we were doing this. You should have gone as John Stamos for Halloween.
Tab Salsman
You told me the story that's saying you should just gone as, as Uncle Jesse.
Mike Catherwood
I feel like, like I, I, I'm actually so pumped and we've talked about how when I was 25 people was like, you look like John St. And I was like, thank you, ed. That's the best shit ever.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
But now, twice in the last, just in this last year, uh, ed Helms was one of the people, ed Helms told me, he's like, you have a Josh Brolin thing going on.
Mike Catherwood
Oh. Like I do.
Tab Salsman
That's
Mike Catherwood
good. I was like, did. Then like a month later, I'm at Austin Airport.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Here. And I was sitting kind of near this one dude. And, uh, he, he and I got into Hawking. He was a very likable dude. And I, so then we go to the baggage claim, right. And I'm, he's in front of me as you know, you're standing by the carousel.
Mike Catherwood
Anyway, but he's in front of me and I could see my shit coming. Yeah. And I go like, dude, like get outta the way real quick so I can grab my, and he's like, just hold on a bit. You Josh Brolin looking motherfucker. Big black guy. And I was like, I was like, I am I that. Yeah. I'll take it. But yeah, I don't see a Brolin esque.
Tab Salsman
Yeah, I see both.
Mike Catherwood
Okay. I'll take
Tab Salsman
it. I get it. I can see both. I could see one way or the other.
Mike Catherwood
You know, I, I get uh, Don Cheadle a lot. You know
Tab Salsman
Don Cheadle?
Mike Catherwood
I was joking.
Tab Salsman
Yeah,
Mike Catherwood
right. He's a black man.
Tab Salsman
I know.
Mike Catherwood
And he doesn't look anything like me.
Tab Salsman
No, I know. That's why it's funny.
Mike Catherwood
Well, it was supposed to be, I don't know who
Tab Salsman
it was.
Tab Salsman
Well, it depends. I still live in the era of humor where workaholics is completely acceptable.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah,
Tab Salsman
I know. It's probably would never have been able to be made now. Uh, but that's the level of humor I live in.
Mike Catherwood
It's weird.
Tab Salsman
It's weird. Just in general.
Mike Catherwood
Well, it's weird that that wouldn't be made now, because that was like six years ago.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. Well
Mike Catherwood
I can understand if you watch like married with children and people like marriage could never make
Tab Salsman
that married. Children is tame to me. Married children is super tame. Married children is like, not really like that. Crazy I don't think. Like I was telling a friend
Mike Catherwood
some stuff's.
Tab Salsman
Probably didn't age well, but I didn't like RG bunker.
Tab Salsman
Like,
Mike Catherwood
well, RG bunker. They'd say the N word.
Tab Salsman
Yeah, I know. That's what
Mike Catherwood
I'm saying. Like they fully say the N word, which, and I'm not sure that isn't better.
Tab Salsman
No,
Mike Catherwood
I'm not saying, I'm not saying you should say the N word. What I'm saying is, is like if it's fully eb boden to do something that doesn't necessarily make it less passe.
Tab Salsman
No, I just think that with hu with comedy and humor is like, the more they try to put restraints about what can and cannot be funny, it just makes people like want to do things in spite of it. To say like, well you're not gonna show, can't tell me what I can cannot say.
Mike Catherwood
Well, it's
Tab Salsman
also, it's like human nature.
Tab Salsman
Like, oh, don't look over there. What do you, what's the first thing you do when your parents say, don't look in, don't look your lap. Everybody looks
Mike Catherwood
well. Yeah. It's also like the, the n word in, in in general, like the idea that you're not even supposed to say it. Even black politicians or entertainers when telling a story about being called the N word are supposed to say the N word as opposed to being like, and the guy called me a, you know what I'm saying?
Mike Catherwood
Like, I'm not saying it now 'cause it's, it's, it's, it is a tasteless word, but one of the things that happened, and I'm not much of like an anti woke, kind of like red pill guy, but I obviously, certain things bother me. One of the things that does bother me is that the, the actual meaning, the actual value of language has just gone right out the door.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Like the conversation we're having is like, there's obviously completely different, there's the same word that can be used in completely different context. Yeah. Completely different purpose. There's, there's, there's artistic expression where you're trying to evoke certain feelings, but there's where you're trying to hurt someone's feelings.
Mike Catherwood
Eh, but neither can, you can't control whether or not someone uses said word in the same way. I think where, where if you're just going to completely throw out where different words mean different things at different times in different contexts, you also, you're essentially giving support to the idea that words don't mean what they're supposed to mean, which has happened a lot.
Mike Catherwood
Literally doesn't mean literally anymore.
Tab Salsman
Oh,
Mike Catherwood
boomer does. People, they're like, yeah, well, you're, it's 'cause you're a boomer. I'm like, I'm 46. I'm over the hill. I'm old. Yeah. I'm, I'm not a boomer. Baby Boomers were grow born, born in the sixties right after, no, born, right after World War ii. Oh, that was when the baby boom happened in 1945 to 48 was these GIS come home.
Mike Catherwood
Were so happy and celebratory and euphoric from winning the war and all these people got everybody pregnant and baby boomers. My dad's a baby boomer.
Tab Salsman
Okay. How old is he?
Mike Catherwood
82.
Tab Salsman
Okay. All right.
Mike Catherwood
I'm not a boomer boomer.
Tab Salsman
I thought Boomer was up to like 60. Uh, I thought it was like the generation that was born up to like mid sixties
Mike Catherwood
maybe.
Mike Catherwood
But the baby boom.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
American baby boom happened post World War ii. Yeah. That is what it was.
Tab Salsman
That's, I do agree with
Mike Catherwood
that. So where, that is where baby boomers, oh, he's just a baby boomer now. This is like, oh, he, and the other day I heard these girls talking about literal, like, literally, literally, it was literally I died and I was like, well, literally you didn't, literally you didn't,
Tab Salsman
I, I've had this, uh, conversation with friends like saying like, you know, everyone's using these words, but no one is subscribing to the same definition anymore.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. The definition of words is lost.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. Well, and it's like, if you could do it in two different directions, you could just take the meaning away. Yeah. Like, like literally is a perfect example. Or you can attribute meaning or, or definitions to words in totally different situations than is, you know what I'm like a retard.
Mike Catherwood
Re retarded is a
Tab Salsman
Oh yeah.
Mike Catherwood
That's a like the R word. Now if you're someone, someone has mental, developmental disabilities and you call 'em a retard and you tell them that they're retarded. Yeah. I would be first to get in line to want punch you in the face.
Tab Salsman
Absolutely.
Mike Catherwood
But the word retarded is not in and of it, it means a delay in,
Tab Salsman
yeah.
Tab Salsman
Well, so I have a mid sixties muscle car.
Mike Catherwood
Okay.
Tab Salsman
And anytime you're trying to get the timing correct. You have to figure out how retarded it's
Mike Catherwood
Yes.
Tab Salsman
Like
Mike Catherwood
Dr. Drew, Dr. Drew used to talk about, uh, up until, and this was in 2012 or I on moment, he's like, up until a decade ago, uh, problems, uh, like, uh, a lot of times problems men would happen in the bedroom.
Mike Catherwood
Mood, retarded ejaculation.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
That's a, that was the medical term was retarded ejaculation. And so that, and, and so my point being is like you're talking about the timing. Yeah. In your car, you're talking about, uh, biological processes, but we've now it's like, no, that word's completely, it's like, but why are we doing that?
Mike Catherwood
But,
Tab Salsman
but that word in its truest sense, retard or retarded in an engine timing
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Is the specific thing
Mike Catherwood
literally.
Tab Salsman
It is literally,
Mike Catherwood
yeah.
Tab Salsman
A specific thing that, I don't know how I could describe it to another mechanic. Right. Or somebody who understands cars, because that is what it is. It's like saying like, we can't call water, water.
Mike Catherwood
Well,
Tab Salsman
no. 'cause that's exactly what it is.
Mike Catherwood
No, it's water. It's, it's actually a little different. It's like saying, I can't call my rooster a cock because you can't say cock because it might be referring to, it's like, no, but that's a cock right there. That's a literally, we're talking about cock fighting it, you know, like what they've done with certain words is like, is like.
Mike Catherwood
You could say, I could say on the radio or on a Disney movie, you could say cock fighting.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
But I can't say suck my cock because there's clearly two different meaning, but people refuse with other words. They go like, oh, well we can't do that with
Tab Salsman
Well, yeah. I mean, that was the whole thing with like, uh, Howard Stern's private parts where you can't say the word pussy because they pussy willow.
Tab Salsman
Right. Like I fill in the blank part, which I thought was a great way of like pointing out the idio. The idio, uh, what was I saying? Like the idio, the idiocracy of it all. Like, wow. Like
Mike Catherwood
the real, the real radio bit that they in private parts that they bring was, and Jackie said blank. A doodle do.
Tab Salsman
Yeah, exactly.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. Yeah. And uh, and, and uh, and quivers her, the voice that she made was hysterical.
Mike Catherwood
I think it must be Cock Bill.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. She, she, she wrote it really hard or she wrote large cock. Yeah, it's great. Like, I love that kind of humor, but, uh, yeah. Yeah. I, I feel like, uh, I feel like everything in general, I feel like everyone's just like, you have, you have, everyone's just on edge.
Tab Salsman
Everyone is just like too sensitive. And, and when I say too sensitive, I'm not saying snowflake feel like everyone is just like hypersensitive to like everything.
Mike Catherwood
And I don't,
Tab Salsman
I don't, on the left and the right, and I have friends in everybody's camp. I'm Switzerland, I say, and uh, like, I like the things that I like and somebody wants to put me in one category or the other.
Tab Salsman
That's for them to label me. I don't fucking care.
Mike Catherwood
Well, and also that's I think how all people are, especially in this country. But yet we for some reason, and maybe it's social media, feel like we have to join teams and shit.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
We're all this pastiche of our experiences and our circumstances. Like I'm a pretty conservative guy for the most part, you know, but I grew up in an environment where I was around a fucked ton of gay people since as far back as far back as I can remember.
Mike Catherwood
It was just not weird that people were, that like people, some dudes like dudes and some chicks like chick. And so I have a, a real soft spot and I could, you people could even go as far to say like, I have like woke feelings about, uh, gay marriage and gay stuff and, but, uh, that's just because that's my weird experience in life.
Mike Catherwood
I, I, yeah, I'm for lower taxes. I'm, I'm not in like this tax the rich no Kings thing, but, uh, I'm pretty kind of open-minded and sensitive to things like gay shit, you know? I don't know. It's, and, but
Tab Salsman
I, I don't understand the No Kings thing. I also have no time for that stuff. There's like so much personally going on, which, you know, a little bit about my father-in-law, cancer and all that.
Tab Salsman
It's like I have no time to like, do anything that's not going to like betterment
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Of my family, my, my, you know, father-in-law's health, my mother-in-law, my dad, like, that's all I care about. It's like that right now. So I, I didn't even know there was a protest until like I turned on X.
Mike Catherwood
If you notice though, they know King's stuff.
Mike Catherwood
Um. I'm not like the first guy to, to kind of point this out. Um, but it makes a lot of sense and it makes things kind of a little bit more reasonable. You look at this specific protest, by and large, it's really old people and really like college aged people.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
Because the two aforementioned groups, they don't like you.
Mike Catherwood
Like you're worrying about your father-in-law. You got your, you got kids, you have a life that you, and it's like, you can't even factor in. I can't factor in shit. I'm trying to figure out how to put food on the table for my family. And I had a, a sick goat the other day that we were wondering if we were gonna put it down.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. And I have a farm shit in it. And I was like, I don't, I don't know, like, are we under attack right now? Is there going to be a great depression? Oh, outside of that, I can't pay attention to your fucking no kings. You know, it seems to be like all the people in that middle bracket that are dealing with shit like you and I are dealing with.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. Don't seem to be showing up for that. It is a lot of like, senior citizens and, and college age kids, you know, 'cause that that is something they can fill their time with, you know?
Tab Salsman
Yeah. I I feel like there's a, there's, there's a lack of, uh, personal productivity with a lot of things. I just feel like when I talk to young hairdressers, it's like, not all young hairdressers, but there are some, and I talk to them, it's like they don't wanna do the work.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
They just don't wanna do the work. And I'm like, Ooh. If you spent less time doom scrolling
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And more time like existing in real life, what would happen? You know, I just, I just don't have, I don't have the patience for stuff like that. Like, there's just more things, more things going on. Uh, your hair.
Mike Catherwood
Yes.
Tab Salsman
Short, short. Shorter.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Do you wanna do one of these cool, like little mulloy things that all these, uh, young kids are doing?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. Let's do it. My wife met, I had a mullet. Like a real mullet.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
It was intense.
Tab Salsman
Not a, not an intense moment. Not
Mike Catherwood
like Well I, but I did have that
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Thinking I would do it to be a dick.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And my wife and my daughter loved it. They actually said like, you should go back to that.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. I think it'd be kind of cool. Right. Not like a full on like Uncle La Dean Stanfield Mole. You
Mike Catherwood
know, uncle Lazers just sick though. I don't think I have long enough hair to do it. But,
Tab Salsman
you know, uncle is like my neighbor.
Mike Catherwood
I did not know that.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. He's my neighbor.
Mike Catherwood
Uh,
Tab Salsman
and I, and uh, I had his buddy, uh, on, uh, the guy who does Ice Cross.
Mike Catherwood
Mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
Britain. And so he does like a Mohawk mullet. And he's like, dude, he's like, yeah. He's like, we're, he's like, I talked to Laser 'cause I saw him in the neighborhood and I was like, bro, you gotta do this.
Tab Salsman
He's like, alright, send me a message. We'll figure it all out. And he has like a lot going on, but, um, yeah. So that's,
Mike Catherwood
I thought he was like, I thought he was like, Bora, you know, I thought he, that's a
Tab Salsman
joke.
Mike Catherwood
Like he was from Brooklyn. It's not. No, no. And I, I, it's a real thing. I'm really actually really close friends with people who know him really well.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And they're like, oh no, he like worked on the oil fields and shit. Like, he's like, that guy. And I was like, oh, it's like way more awesome now. Way more.
Tab Salsman
Awesome. Yeah. So what happened is I had two guests that I became friends with, Maverick McWilliams. He like was on Koni, and he like liked the little book and all that.
Tab Salsman
He's really fucking great comedian. And then Dean Stanfield, who's fucking great, he just got named like top 25 guys at the, uh, Montreal, just for last comedy festival.
Mike Catherwood
Mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
So he, he's like now, like the, the eyes are on him. It's him, it's time, it's time. He's great. He's really funny. You, you should meet actually.
Tab Salsman
Well, you and I should go fucking see some comedy now. They're a little closer to me. Uh, and anyways, so what happened is he, uh, they were all roommates. Three fucking comedians. Dude. I was, so, I had, and I didn't even know who Laser was until Dean mentioned it. And I was like, and I saw him. I go, is he like that?
Tab Salsman
I think he goes, yeah, on stage. He's like a 10 in life. He's probably right. Cruising around seven or eight. And I was like, all right. I'm like, let's do this. Like, let's, like, I'm hoping it'd be fun. It'd be a fun one.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. It's, oh, okay. I, I guess I overstepped when I said he was like, Bora, I thought he was more like Larry Cable guy, because Larry the cable guy,
Tab Salsman
he's not that guy.
Mike Catherwood
He's not that guy, but it's, but he's a mild version, so I thought, I don't go laser might be from Texas. And I go,
Tab Salsman
no,
Mike Catherwood
but no, no. Like, that's him, that's his life.
Tab Salsman
I really think all of his antics talking about, uh, single mothers is. Not an act.
Mike Catherwood
Oh, no, no. I am,
Tab Salsman
no, I, I, I, uh,
Mike Catherwood
I'm not gonna out anything. 'cause
Tab Salsman
I, I believe, I believe there's a, I believe his stuff is not rooted in like, oh, this is a fun hypothetical story.
Tab Salsman
I think this is like, this happened and I'm going to tell the story.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Uh, yeah. He's just funny guy. But, um, so what are we doing shorter? Let's do this, let's take this stuff a little shorter.
Mike Catherwood
Yes. La this on the side especially Got it. Needs to be like so much more.
Tab Salsman
Okay. What about here on top? Like, are you, I know like when you're working on the ranch, you're probably not like, I'm gonna get my hair done up and I'm gonna like look like sexy cowboy.
Mike Catherwood
No,
Tab Salsman
you're not gonna put on your I'm, but when
Mike Catherwood
I'm on the ranch,
Tab Salsman
you're gonna do your hair. You're gonna get like a crop top that says like, you know, make Texas a country again. Disney Dukes and, uh, and cowboy boots
Mike Catherwood
When I am on the ranch. Yeah. Like, specifically I am wearing a cowboy hat. Mm-hmm. A because, uh, I'm, I'm one of those guys that like, no, this, it sunblocks terrible.
Mike Catherwood
And I natural said, but I'm also naturally very tan and I didn't realize how much I lucked out with actual sun damage.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
So when you're out in the fields in, in Texas in the summer, like I'm usually wearing my big cowboy hats.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
But, uh, I don't like to wear hats because I like to celebrate that I have my hair.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And so when I, my hair's like this, I end up wearing a hat every day.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And it bugs me. Yeah. So I want it to be. As long and nice and beautiful as you think as a professional can be without having to, for me to have to wear a hat every day. Okay. If that can
Tab Salsman
be. Yeah. 'cause I saw when you were on, uh, the kid and the fighter Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Like you were rocking a hat and I'm like, man, his hair must be really long.
Mike Catherwood
Oh yeah. 'cause that was just like last, last week.
Tab Salsman
I know.
Mike Catherwood
And, um,
Tab Salsman
so let's do this. Let's, uh, I'm gonna clip some of this stuff out. I think it'd be cool to kind of take this nice and short. I don't wanna give you like a full on like mullet.
Tab Salsman
Mullet. Yes. But I, I, it reminds me of like the early 2000, mid 2000, like soccer haircuts. Those little footballer haircuts.
Mike Catherwood
The like beck of mullet
Tab Salsman
almost back of me. Yeah. It was like fun. Something fun and short, messy. And then there's like, just a little bit back here. Let's do it like this, like a little like,
Mike Catherwood
oh, you're speaking my language.
Tab Salsman
I think that'd be cool. Like, I thought, you know, Beckham, dude,
Mike Catherwood
I had to listen to my wife. She said like, why don't you let the pro guide you? I said, okay, I'll do that.
Tab Salsman
What do we let the pro?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
What do I know? All right.
Mike Catherwood
You know a lot, dude.
Tab Salsman
Uh, sometimes
Mike Catherwood
all you and you were talking about,
Tab Salsman
hang on,
Mike Catherwood
hang on.
Mike Catherwood
Like, a lot of kids are not willing to do the work.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. So true.
Mike Catherwood
But a let's, let's, and I always do this when I
Tab Salsman
talk
Mike Catherwood
shit
Tab Salsman
on younger generations, right?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Because I'm actually old. Uh, I feel like I'm old enough where I can start
Speaker unclear
talking.
Mike Catherwood
You are, you are, you're 43. Okay. You, so you, you're, you're in your forties, you're, you're a man, um, when you have a family.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And so when I'm gonna be moan young, especially young dudes, I don't wanna say shit about shit when it comes to young women, whether they be old or young. But when younger guys, I Okay. Be honest and analyze. If you had the world that they had, how would you be? For instance, the other day I was at Jiujitsu talking to these kids, ut college students, 20 some.
Mike Catherwood
They were like strapping handsome young guys.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Talking about chicks. And they're like, well, I go, well just go to a party, blah, blah. And they're like, well, we don't, I don't go out.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And I go, what do you mean you'll go out? And he's like, well, I don't, I don't go to, I don't wanna fucking go to a party.
Mike Catherwood
And I go like, okay, wait, what's wrong? So I tell to bring the other two dudes over.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Same shit. They're like, yeah, we, I don't really, and I said, what about girl? And they're like, we, me girls like this. And they showed me their phone.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And I'm like, that's so pathetic. You guys have no social life, blah, blah, blah.
Mike Catherwood
I got my car, I drove, I was like, dude, if 19-year-old Mike had Tinder, you would never leave your fucking room. And you would take bong loads of your friends, play PlayStation and looked for girls. You would NI went to parties, I went to clubs, I went to bars, I went to, and I had a very thriving social life.
Mike Catherwood
You know why? Because I fucking had to, it was the only way I was gonna meet a girl. Yeah. There was no random girl was gonna walk into my fucking dorm room or whatever. And so I said, yeah, stop, stop bemoaning them. They're doing exactly what you would do if you had that world. But,
Tab Salsman
okay. Like on the flip side mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
From having clients that are younger. Mm-hmm. Do you know that they can't stand like, like, ugh. Like this is all we're dealing with. Like, 'cause they wish guys would come up to him and talk to in person.
Mike Catherwood
Oh, I bet that's true.
Tab Salsman
So like, I, I feel like, uh, as a hairdresser. Like you hear all of it, right? Mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
And I'm like, have you ever thought about just like going up and like talking to a girl and say, uh, and or going, just like talking to them. They're like, yeah, but it's not, it's not that easy. I'm like, it actually is that easy. I go, dealing with your rejection is the hard part.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And the more you get rejected in life, the more you're able to like realize that not everything is the end of the world.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And uh, I actually thought that, like, I had this belief that the more times you do things, uh, and you, you're, you're met with resistance, like noble things, you know, with resistance. It just means that like when I say noble, like I'm gonna do this and it doesn't work out, but I'm gonna keep doing it again.
Tab Salsman
Like, you're just like trying to do that. Like, I wanna find a spouse, like you keep dating and it doesn't work out, and you find another person to date, and then eventually you find that person hopefully that you're gonna spend the rest of your life with, or at least a good time of your life with, right?
Tab Salsman
Like, that just prepares you for adversity. And I feel like there's a, a jet whole group of people who are just like adverse to ever wanting to have not perfect success. Because it doesn't Instagram Well, it doesn't Instagram. Well,
Mike Catherwood
that's, that's very true,
Tab Salsman
I think. And so like, so they're just at, they're just completely hiding from failure because they don't want to like show it.
Tab Salsman
Like I, I'm so glad I didn't have Instagram or Facebook or MySpace or Friendster. I was in high school. Be in jail. You'd be in jail.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah,
Tab Salsman
dude. First off, like. I, I don't know if I would be in jail. I definitely know that like
Mike Catherwood
I wouldn't be in jail, but I would, I
Tab Salsman
definitely know that like I probably wouldn't have had the, the, the leeway.
Mike Catherwood
I wouldn't be in jail. I never really, I was never like a legal besides drugs. I was never,
Tab Salsman
besides
Mike Catherwood
even
Tab Salsman
substances,
Mike Catherwood
I was a drug addict. And I, so I would constantly, and, and you know, DUI, that kind of, because I was a drug addict, I was an alcoholic and so anything involved DUI, oh, you got like six.
Tab Salsman
Oh
Mike Catherwood
fuck.
Mike Catherwood
You
Tab Salsman
can't go to Canada.
Mike Catherwood
I spread 'em out in different states.
Tab Salsman
But you can't go to Canada.
Mike Catherwood
I can't drive in Pennsylvania.
Tab Salsman
Really? I was just there.
Mike Catherwood
And, uh, but you, my point be is like, outside of that, like I never, I never did any, I I just, I'm not a big fan of like breaking the law or doing bad shit, you know, that I, I, I know I'm losing a lot of punk rock street cred, but, um, well,
Tab Salsman
I, I, I don't think punk rock is mean like breaking the law.
Mike Catherwood
No, I know.
Tab Salsman
To me, punk rock is like doing what you want. You do and you believe in it.
Mike Catherwood
But even, even like the, yeah, I agree with that completely. But I also think like, even that kind of rebellious nature that like the healthier part aspect of it, I was like, I was never there. I mean, I am kind of like, I'll go hang out with you and your parents and we'll talk about everybody.
Mike Catherwood
That was Raymond. I'm perfectly content. I'm, I'm just not much of a, I'm not that guy. I'm more, I'm much more of like just a, a simpleton class clown. I, I do love that. I love busting balls. I love it.
Tab Salsman
Oh yeah.
Mike Catherwood
But you know, when I was saying like, if I had, if I had social media when I was a teenager, I'd be in jail.
Mike Catherwood
I would not be in jail. I would absolutely be canceled though.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I couldn't get any good jobs because I would, you know, there's too many, you know, douche bag boneheaded kind of things that I said and stuff that I did to my buddies that, uh, would, they'd make their way to the surface. And like we, we, when we were in senior year, me and my friends, almost every picture that they would take, like with potential for being in year, we would have our balls out or like, like try to have our balls out and that, you know, of course they didn't post those, but if you were taking it, using a digital camera instead of film, those would be out there somewhere.
Mike Catherwood
And of course, I'm not gonna go post access Hollywood or some shit like that.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. So tell me about your book.
Mike Catherwood
So I decided to write
Tab Salsman
You Can a
Mike Catherwood
nutrition book.
Tab Salsman
That's great.
Mike Catherwood
I did, I
Tab Salsman
did. I bought You didn't do a ghost writer?
Mike Catherwood
No, no. I, I, I believe me, I've, in the past I had people wanting me to write like real books and shit.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. And, and then they'd get the ghost writer talk and they're like, but I don't see this vision. Why don't we go with this down? I was like, oh, fuck off. I don't wanna do this anymore. And I really like, I was like, nevermind. We're just not gonna do it.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Um, and I, I guess that was maybe one of the bigger motivating factors of wanting to do it, was that I think there's a narrative that comes into play when you're talking about health and fitness.
Mike Catherwood
And I was like, wait, fads or what's trending or what gets engagement or what is cool or what people will buy into, or what's marketable. None of this should come into play.
Tab Salsman
It should just be the facts.
Mike Catherwood
I'm gonna filter out stuff that I've both anecdotally and, you know, through research. This is totally true.
Mike Catherwood
This is un unarguable, this is solid. This is not open for debate, no if ands or buts, and I'm gonna make a book about that and then hopefully do it in a digestible way. And so that's what it did, you know? And, and, uh, what's it called? It is called a Meatheads Guide to Salvation.
Tab Salsman
Okay.
Mike Catherwood
And I thought, uh, I don't know, I, you and I were talking at the beginning about how kids don't want to put in the work.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. And I think that, that by and large is true because kids nowadays, when I say kids, I mean like, you know, twenties, teens,
Tab Salsman
not like,
Mike Catherwood
not like my daughter, you know, like fifth grade. But I think they are looking at things from the prism of six, potential success or not success.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
And if I, for instance, in 2002, 2003, got into radio, have got into podcasting instead of radio where there was editing and whatnot.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
I would never have any success because. I didn't do it because I wanted to make money or be famous. I got into it because I was like, this means something to me.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
And I didn't have a choice. And I got on there and I stunk, I really fucking stunk. And then I had to try and I worked at it because it meant something to me.
Mike Catherwood
Mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
And
Mike Catherwood
I got better. And then I built a career. And I mean, but if I was just looking at it from the prism of like, oh, I think I can make money at this, which is not to their own fault, the way a lot of younger kids look at things nowadays. Yeah. Um, it's hard to develop passion for stuff when it's just like constantly scrolling through going, okay, is this gonna be successful or is this gonna be successful?
Tab Salsman
Yeah. And I mean, I always remember the, the, the, the clients who were younger and they were picking their careers based off of the financial income.
Mike Catherwood
Right.
Tab Salsman
And they were always just miserable.
Mike Catherwood
And that's,
Tab Salsman
I mean, not all of 'em, but like, they really just were like, I don't like this. I don't know why I chose this.
Tab Salsman
I'm like, you chose this so you can make the money that you're making right now. Yeah. So you can have the life that you wanna live, but it come, everything comes at a cost.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
You could be happy as shit and have no money. And then you can have all the money in the world
Mike Catherwood
and be miserable.
Tab Salsman
And be miserable.
Tab Salsman
What was it? There's a quote says like, some people are so poor, all they have is money. And I, and, and I I was like, what are you talking about? But it made sense like those individuals don't have some of these things that you cannot buy. I uh, I talk about this with my wife all the time. I'm like, look, we have trust.
Tab Salsman
How many marriages have trust, how many marriages are healthy, where the other one can count on the other one on anything. Like, how many of these things, like, we're happy, like we love each other. We're not just saying that like we do, like how we have two happy, healthy boys. Like, these are all things that like you can't
Mike Catherwood
buy, right?
Mike Catherwood
No, you can't. And you can't and, and you can't also, you work
Tab Salsman
at '
Mike Catherwood
em. But also some 20 year olds listening to us right now, like, shut the fuck up, dude. And I get that because you can't also can't synthesize those feelings
Tab Salsman
Well
Mike Catherwood
until it's there. You know,
Tab Salsman
I was in Seattle a few years ago
Mike Catherwood
mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
And I met up with dinner, uh, had dinner with my old assistant, and he goes, and you know, he's, I think maybe now like maybe like 31, so he is like 10 years younger than me.
Tab Salsman
Uh, yeah, he was 21 when he became an assistant, and I was like 32. Mm-hmm. And he said, shit, you not, he said all of those times you were trying to like tell me like, you should be planning for the sep eyebrow. You should be planning for this. You should be doing this. He's like, I didn't, it didn't make any sense to me.
Tab Salsman
He goes, and I also didn't care. I was like, whatever old guy. He
Mike Catherwood
goes
Tab Salsman
at three, he goes, now I'm the age you were telling me that. And I realized, holy fuck, I should have listened to you.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. And I go, yeah, I mean, I, I mean, I can't force you to save money. I can't force you to do. These things. I could just only provide an example and whatever.
Tab Salsman
But, uh, because of that, and like, I just remember within five years of certain things going on in my life, the things when clients would, uh, give un unwarranted, unsolicited advice and they were like, the older they were, the more I listened to them. So if they were like 10 years older than me, I listened to them.
Tab Salsman
If they were like 40 years older than me, it was like a campfire chat. Like, I had to know everything. 'cause I felt that the longer they lived, they had, they had gone through like those, you know, what it was like to be 40, 50. Now they're like 70. Like they have a completely different perspective. And they're also now watching like the fruits of their labor of raising kids, and now they're raising grandkids.
Tab Salsman
Right, right. So like I, uh, I, I understand like the 20-year-old may go like, oh, you guys are crazy. But it's just not relevant to them yet. It doesn't matter.
Mike Catherwood
It doesn't.
Mike Catherwood
And, and, but maybe that's how
Tab Salsman
it's supposed to be. It's supposed to go. Yeah. Like did you ever listen to your parents when they told you to do not do something as a teenager?
Tab Salsman
Uh, I didn't. I listened to them. And then sometimes like, you don't know what it's like because you're not dating in this environment. Now it's changed.
Mike Catherwood
I also didn't have that relationship with my parents. I, my parents didn't tell me things.
Tab Salsman
Oh, my parents were like super involved. I was an only child. They were super involved in my life.
Tab Salsman
Like when I played the Roxy or the Whiskey or whatever, they were there. That's
Mike Catherwood
awesome.
Tab Salsman
We'd all go to the Rainbow together afterwards. Next thing you know. My parents were like sharing pizza with the dudes from Fear Factory, and like site like B-roll was show up and my mom was like, Hey, Mr. B, and or was it Mr.
Tab Salsman
Real? Like it was that, that was my life. Totally different. Like we went to go see Machine Head.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
My mom made them cookies.
Mike Catherwood
Rob Flynn's a really nice guy.
Tab Salsman
Yeah, yeah. A
Mike Catherwood
really nice
Tab Salsman
guy. Yeah. And we knew, she knew that they liked to drink, so she made these like rumbles.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And uh, they, they were like, oh my God, these are so good.
Tab Salsman
Do they have rum in them? I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I told
Mike Catherwood
boy, do they like to drink by the way? Oh
Tab Salsman
God. Yeah. They uh, they definitely, uh, yeah, they, they, I, I remember, fuck, it was like my senior of high school and uh, the Britney Spears baby One more Time song had come out.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And we were partying on their bus till like two in the morning in the parking lot of what, what's called the Palace now, Avalon.
Tab Salsman
And they just had that song on repeat and it was like a giant party. And I just remember like, Rob would not stop playing the Britney Spear song.
Mike Catherwood
It's a hit.
Tab Salsman
It was hysterical.
Mike Catherwood
You can say what you want, but it's a hit.
Tab Salsman
No, it was a total hit.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. It was just the funniest thing. I was like, oh my gosh.
Tab Salsman
And then my bass player, he got hammered. He was drinking brown eyes, which is his vodka and coke, which is their drink.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
He was so shitfaced the next day, keep mine
Mike Catherwood
brown eyes,
Tab Salsman
keep mine. I'm 17 at this, in this story.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And my friends. 17 in this story. Yeah, one of those things. Yeah, one of those things.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. I mean, I also waited until I was like 21 to pretty much drink. Actually, I take that back. I got drunk six months before I turned 21 with Chavo from System of Down and Paul from Slope Knot and my friends back. That's
Mike Catherwood
a pretty solid crew.
Tab Salsman
And they're like, well, what are you gonna order when you turn 21?
Tab Salsman
I'm like, I don't know, beer. They're like, what kind of beer? I'm like, I don't know, just beer.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
I'm like, all right, try this. I'm like, this is awful. They go, that's Coors. Glad you recognize it's awful, but you need to finish it now. Here's a new castle. I'm like, okay. They're like, my dad's better. They're go good.
Tab Salsman
I go, here's a gas. I'm like, oh, this is good. And then I think Sha was like, we need to whiskey shots. I'm like, what? Like, here's Jack Daniels, here's Crown, here's Crown and Coke. If you're drinking with the Pantera boys, you're gonna wanna drink this if you're drinking with a Machin, guys, it's like, I, it was my first time drinking.
Tab Salsman
I got
Mike Catherwood
Don't drink with Pantera, by the way.
Tab Salsman
Well, you, I can't now.
Mike Catherwood
Well, no one can't unless you're in heaven.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I, I heard this story and I was like, oh God. Like, don't wanna, don't wanna do that.
Mike Catherwood
I mean, that's a pretty good breakdown right there, Chavo and Paul because like, live like Chavo and look what happened to poor Paul.
Mike Catherwood
Like he was such a nice guy, you know?
Tab Salsman
Yeah. Paul, Paul was the, Paul was great. Paul's,
Mike Catherwood
he was a genuinely nice man.
Tab Salsman
Super nice. So you're doing this like meathead book thing?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Where you're just kind of trying to simplify what you've learned in this. It sounds like I have not read the book. Mm-hmm. Um, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you my assumptions.
Mike Catherwood
Okay.
Tab Salsman
I've never seen the assumption what they say. I think this is what you wrote about.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. I appreciate that.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. I haven't read it. Uh, I haven't had time to read anything. Um, I imagine you found a way to simplify all the nuanced details of your journey in meathead, where instead of trying to explain, like, explain everything in a text message back and forth to me, you could say, read this book.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And it'll probably answer all of these very big questions and also these very like, detailed questions.
Mike Catherwood
Definitely. That's a good way. So that, but on top of that, a, a big, big goal of mine
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Was to convince people, and I, when I say people, I mean that as, as broadly as possible that they can do it.
Mike Catherwood
Because when I'm going to really dig my heels in and, and I I stand behind this, there's nothing trendy. There's no fads, there's no, um, kind of marketable aspects to this.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
When, when I'm talking specifically about diet and nutrition, but you're going to quickly encounter whether you are a college student who wants to look good for the summer and pick up chicks, or you're like a mom with th with three kids and you work a full-time job too.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And you wanna look differently and look better. You're going to quickly encounter stuff in this book and be like, well, I can't do this. This is for, this is for super fitnessy people who work out every day.
Tab Salsman
What would make an example of that?
Mike Catherwood
Tracking what you eat, weighing your food and tracking.
Mike Catherwood
People hear that and they think like, that's for weird anorexic girls in the nineties. No. Or, or, or bodybuilders.
Tab Salsman
No, it's not. I mean, if you want to do anything, you're gonna have to track it.
Mike Catherwood
Mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
Like, I know this from my friends and clients who wanted to get pregnant.
Mike Catherwood
Mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
They had to just, they had, they had to monitor everything.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
In order to make, so that way they had the need of medical intervention with the doctor. They, they had the data and the resources to talk to that doctor and say, Hey, here I am. Like, if you're not doing that and you're going to like, well, I'm gonna get a trainer, the trainer's gonna go, what are you eating?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And if you don't, you can't, you can say like, I don't have it. Or you can say, I've been trying to track this and is what I eat on average. That's like, that's only gonna help them.
Mike Catherwood
And it's also going to be okay, the person who's, let's say you're a woman 35. You have two kids, and you are at first glance, like, we will both collectively agree you're 60 pounds overweight.
Mike Catherwood
Okay. So it's, it's, it's something that's been bothering you and it's an issue and blah, blah, blah. You probably are not going to even sit there and have. A preconceived notion of how much you're eating or, or that you are eating the right things or the wrong things or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. As if there is right or wrong.
Mike Catherwood
I don't even think there is, but, but let's, let's just say that person is like, I need help.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And I get that. If you are 30-year-old dude who's working in tech and you've always been like a go-getter and you just wish that, like you did, you're in good shape. You work out already, but you wish you didn't have that extra layer of fat and you want to kind of like really have your six pack pop.
Tab Salsman
That's like me.
Mike Catherwood
Okay. All right. Let's say, let's, let's, let's say, but see you're a bad example 'cause you have a very deep knowledge of nutrition. You have, you and I have talked off the air. You have a, you have a pretty example.
Tab Salsman
I just haven't been able to, uh, do the things as much as I would like to.
Mike Catherwood
But let's say okay, average, like kind of hard charging normal alpha male dude, right?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. The guy, guy who listens to Joe Rogan, you're, you take care of yourself, but you, he will say like, I, but I've been eating clean for the last two months. And I go like, yeah, but what are you eating?
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And how much? And you go like, oh no, no. I've been eating clean. I had chicken breasts for dinner and I had some rice.
Mike Catherwood
And I, I go like, how much are you eating? What are you eating? And, and then inevitably you get down to it. It's like, okay, let's put that to the test. What did you have last night? I had chicken and broccoli and rice. Okay. Did you have anything else? Well, I put sauce on that. What sauce? How much? Mm-hmm. Okay.
Mike Catherwood
My point being is that they did this study and it was a very, very good study because it was actually over a really prolonged period of time. It was like six to eight months.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
They took 36 women and they had them, uh, track their food and weigh and everything, and then they had a double blind, so they didn't know what the numbers were.
Mike Catherwood
They just kept track of their eating for six, and then they had them estimate what they thought they were eating.
Tab Salsman
Okay.
Mike Catherwood
And then they actually had the totals to back it up.
Tab Salsman
Okay.
Mike Catherwood
On this is on average over 36 something, or 30, I think 30 maybe perhaps 60 women. But the average was 1300 calories.
Tab Salsman
That's it.
Mike Catherwood
Underestimating how much they were eating. No, these are, these are, these are a hundred twenty five, a hundred thirty pound women.
Tab Salsman
Yeah,
Mike Catherwood
these are, and they're like, oh, uh, yesterday I had 1300 calories and she had 2,600 calories. Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Oh.
Mike Catherwood
So,
Tab Salsman
so they were underestimating,
Mike Catherwood
they were underestimating by, they were
Tab Salsman
consuming more than they thought
Mike Catherwood
and, and even healthier.
Tab Salsman
So the goes, I only cut an inch off and they cut like that.
Mike Catherwood
Even healthy, really motivated people you have, you will think you are doing. And, and you know, it's gotten better because I think people have gotten access to a little bit more of understanding when it comes to eating. But you know, in the nineties people thought like if you didn't, if you went to Subway and said McDonald's.
Mike Catherwood
Like
Tab Salsman
that was healthy.
Mike Catherwood
You home run. That was home.
Tab Salsman
Did everyone, my, my biggest gripe on that is everyone thinks Chick-fil-A is healthier than anything
Mike Catherwood
else because it's chicken. Why the fuck would they think
Tab Salsman
that? No, there's like 50 ingredients just in the chicken and there's like another 40 fucking ingredients just in the buds.
Mike Catherwood
Why would anyone assume that?
Tab Salsman
Because it's chicken and it seems cleaner. It doesn't have the stigma, texture. It's McDonald's Delicious or Burger King.
Mike Catherwood
It's delicious. I'll give him that. I,
Tab Salsman
but it's total, it's full of a whole bunch of shit that
Mike Catherwood
Oh, I would, I'm not eating it. I'm just telling you that the times I've had Chick-fil-A, which is once or twice it, I've been like, this is fucking delicious.
Tab Salsman
Well, I mean, like, I've been in force where I'm starving. There's nothing there. And I'm like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna order, I almost always go to a place, I'll just, I go, can I just order a burger?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And I go, I'm like, double meat. And then I just take off the bun. Take
Mike Catherwood
the bun
Tab Salsman
off. Yeah. And I said, Che, I asked for extra cheese.
Tab Salsman
I'll throw like an onion on there. And they're like, look at me like I'm crazy.
Mike Catherwood
Prioritize protein.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
So that's part of the book. And uh, you're, you're making my case for me. Um, and I don't expect people to weigh their food and track it forever. In fact, I encourage you not to, I don't want people to live their life, but I think what separates the people who are genuinely, sincerely, fucking 100% totally motivated.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
And the outside of those, uh, within those people, the like 3 5% of people who actually get the results that they dream of.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
The stuff that separates them is these boring bullshitty things like tracking. Yeah. Like. I
Tab Salsman
measured all my foot out
Mike Catherwood
and, and you. And, and another thing that I really, the main, honestly, my main goal with it was, I'm gonna name stuff like tracking, like eating 0.8 grams of protein per every pound of overall body weight.
Tab Salsman
Wait, wait, say that again.
Mike Catherwood
Let's say, uh, point, my recommendation is 0.8 grams.
Tab Salsman
Okay.
Mike Catherwood
Basically,
Tab Salsman
so I, I weigh like 1 73 right now.
Mike Catherwood
So you're looking at 140 ish.
Tab Salsman
What? Okay. One 40 ish of grams, right?
Mike Catherwood
Mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
I wanna ask you a question. Yeah. Not like how many protein scoops, because I could count that. What I wanna know is how many file ounces would I have to have for that?
Tab Salsman
Or like, how many ground beef burgers would I on average have? Like I do butcher box
Mike Catherwood
pound and a half
Tab Salsman
pound and a half. Okay. And that would be like my daily consumption of protein. Mm-hmm. Okay.
Mike Catherwood
Now,
Tab Salsman
I, I only asked that because like, for me, it was the part that I loved about measuring my food. Mm-hmm. It wasn't about measuring my food, it was able to connect my eye and a roundabout size.
Mike Catherwood
Right.
Tab Salsman
So I could go,
Mike Catherwood
which will, by the way, thank you for that. Which will happen if you spend a month or two tracking and weighing. You eventually get to the point where it's like, I can see, like, that's how much I should be eating.
Tab Salsman
That's a eyeball.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
But the eyeball doesn't come, you can't put the heart cart before the horse.
Mike Catherwood
But I'm gonna, I'm gonna, so what are you talking like 80, 20? Uh, how lean is this gonna be? 80
Tab Salsman
20.
Mike Catherwood
Okay. 80 20 round beef. I'm gonna say, I said 1.5 pounds.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
So 80 20, oh no, that's six ounces.
Tab Salsman
It's okay.
Mike Catherwood
Ounce. Its, uh, 24 ounces is 175 grands per protein. So I was a little, I was I understand
Tab Salsman
you better have more than less.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. So you, you could eat a little over a pound a day and, which is by the way, not that hard for an average sized man like you.
Tab Salsman
Well, you saw what I had for breakfast today.
Mike Catherwood
I did. And
Tab Salsman
I don't know where that goes, but I just know when I eat four to five eggs with the yolks runny, because everything I've read about yolks, that, that's where the mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
That's your, that's where you get the cholesterol, but that's where you get the nutrients.
Mike Catherwood
Powerhouse. Powerhouse biotin
Tab Salsman
yolks are insane.
Mike Catherwood
Folic acid. It's crazy.
Tab Salsman
Choline
Mike Catherwood
a potassium.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. So much stuff. Right? Everyone's like, you can't, like scrambled eggs. So I'm gonna take a page from one of my friends who's a raw vegan.
Mike Catherwood
Mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
So one of my friends who was a raw vegan, she, um, hang on real quick. I just wanna make sure, uh, wait, hang on. I did something with a phone and I just wanna make sure that, okay. Sorry. I, I realized I panicked. My watch was set to the East coast where I came from. Ooh. So I was like, you're
Mike Catherwood
freaking
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
I freaked out. Yeah. I had a panic. That was me panicking. Everyone saw it. I do panic. Okay. So I had a friend who's raw vegan.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And what she said is that with raw vegans. If you cook the food over a hundred, I think 187 degrees, you kill all the nutrients, all the natural digestive enzymes. She's right vegetables.
Tab Salsman
And so made me go, wait, I wonder if that same thought would apply to meat or eggs. The more you cook something, the more the nutrients get cooked out.
Mike Catherwood
Maybe it's, it's a, she's right, but to an extent,
Tab Salsman
because I believe everything I've read about scrambled eggs mm-hmm. Versus like eating the eggs away, you saw me eat them.
Tab Salsman
Is that when you cook the yolks to that extent, all those good properties of the yolk evaporates more or less, they get cooked out.
Mike Catherwood
It's hard to know. I mean, I'm sure look, anytime you're putting high heat to stuff for a prolonged period of time, I'm sure there's some compromise. But what she was saying about like, that is so true with certain cabbages, carrots, and she's a raw vegan, so, uh, it, it rings very true for her.
Tab Salsman
She's always sick.
Mike Catherwood
There's a, a
Tab Salsman
always sick, like, literally like always had a sniffle. And I'm like, I'd be like, just eat, eat the stick.
Mike Catherwood
And the, um, you know, there's, there's certain vegetables that are just, you should never cook them that you should. Now, on the alternative, you should never really eat like raw spinach.
Mike Catherwood
You should never really eat raw broccoli. These are things that you are, you are going to get a nutritional advantage by cooking them a little bit because you're going to get some certain antinutrients outta the way and you're, there's gonna be an improvement in digestion and usefulness of. It's the human system of, of those foods.
Mike Catherwood
Uh, I don't know when you're talking about meats, because I've always, I I eat raw meat a lot and have, since I was a little kid. When you're talking about, like,
Tab Salsman
talking about like raw beef carpaccios
Mike Catherwood
and things like that, you know, I've just finish
Tab Salsman
this song,
Mike Catherwood
it's gonna
Tab Salsman
get loud. There's been, um,
Mike Catherwood
there's been, whether it be certain Asian in cuisine or like, uh, Western beef I sushi.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah, you have, you have. But, and you have, I've had that with beef since I was a little kid. I've had, you know, dishes that were served raw
Tab Salsman
Oh yes. A tartar
Mike Catherwood
and tartar and, and carpaccio and you know, with, you're going with the Italians and stuff. And so I, I, I understand that. And now is there a huge health value?
Mike Catherwood
I don't know. I don't know. Is, are all the things and all the benefits from certain meats seen through the prism and research of cooked meat? All of it is. So I don't think that there's that much need or to kind of investigate whether we should be eating raw beef or not.
Tab Salsman
Well, I mean, you fix it 'cause the, uh, moi moi tribe, the tribe out, out in Africa, that they drink the blood of the animals.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. And they have some of the most resilient, my friend, uh, Brian Sanders, he does food life. He's coming out with this like six part, like nine part series. And they talk, he was talking about that like, these guys, they eat and consume all the organs, all the fat meat and even the blood. And they, I forget what it was.
Tab Salsman
It was something very specific that they just seemed to have like. This an insane like immune system.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And uh, and I always wondered, like, I wonder if that has to do with consuming things.
Mike Catherwood
I, I don't,
Tab Salsman
some people believe that our appendix is actually a debunk organ that was there to actually help process meat that was raw.
Tab Salsman
Have you heard about that one in that, because we don't consume Right. We don't want, that's the reason why our, our appendix is
Mike Catherwood
who knows? Look, human evolution is human evolution's crazy. Human evolution's crazy 'cause we've been around so long. Um, but the, like, again, I love it and you and I could sit here and wax poetic about that kind of shit all day.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
One of my main motivating and contributing factors into writing this book was like, none of this shit matters. Don't eat too many calories, prioritize protein and make sure you get a good balance of micronutrients.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
Like, that's it. Like, literally, I don't give a fuck. People talk about, they're like, yeah, well you don't understand.
Mike Catherwood
'cause I'm a vegan. I go like, if we're gonna talk about like, extreme dieting or, or reductionist diets. The vegan diet is the one even as a meat eater that I recommend the most because almost always it's motivated by moral factors.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
Which supersede anything that I'm talking about.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I don't really give a shit.
Mike Catherwood
If you are for religious reasons or for moral reasons not eating meat, then you rock and I, I support you. But don't come at me and confuse the two and try to tell me like that's a superior health choice. Mm. Because I will, I will, I will disagree. Yeah. And there's, you know, there's a reason why when people, um, and unfortunately a lot of times it's celebrities who have to be these Guinea pigs, but they'll encounter certain health issues, and then that's what forces them into starting to eat meat or dairy or whatnot, you know?
Tab Salsman
Yeah. I mean, I didn't eat dairy for a long time because, uh, when I say dairy, I, I would've cheeses.
Mike Catherwood
Mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
I wouldn't have milk.
Mike Catherwood
Right.
Tab Salsman
Straight up. And then, uh, at a client recommend going to, there's this health food store when I was in California coming mother's market. Mm-hmm. I wish we would have one here in Austin.
Mike Catherwood
God, I miss
Tab Salsman
having a
Mike Catherwood
mother's
Tab Salsman
market nearby, and
Mike Catherwood
I could
Tab Salsman
just, and they said, you
Mike Catherwood
should
Tab Salsman
try
Mike Catherwood
drinking the raw milk.
Tab Salsman
I was
Mike Catherwood
a little frightful at first, but, uh, they explained to me the benefits
Tab Salsman
of
Mike Catherwood
why I might
Tab Salsman
want to try drinking raw milk. And I, I didn't have any of the same negative effects that I had when I had the, uh, the other milk.
Mike Catherwood
Me neither. I, I, I, I love milk and I've always drank milk, but it always fucked me up.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. But now the raw milky doesn't fuck me up.
Mike Catherwood
It doesn't, I don't
Tab Salsman
know. I had a, a client, or she's a friend now, and she was like talking about, she goes, I would love to try it, but I'm really worried. I go look like pourer a glass of milk.
Tab Salsman
I forgot it with your haircut.
Mike Catherwood
She goes,
Tab Salsman
all right, you're gonna hear a call from me in about 45 minutes while my stomach starts hating it, and it goes on self-destruct. I didn't hear her call in 45 minutes. Matter of fact, her husband sent me a text going like,
Mike Catherwood
Hey, where
Tab Salsman
do you get that? Like she, she did have a reaction to it, like, it, it, and I go, I'm telling you the, uh, uh, the process of which they, you know, kill all the, the good shit.
Tab Salsman
Like, somebody explained it to me. And like, when you do the, uh, what
Mike Catherwood
is that
Tab Salsman
process called again? I forget.
Mike Catherwood
Pasteurization.
Tab Salsman
Pasteurization. That when they pasteurize it, the, the, uh, the proteins in the milk, it becomes like inverted. They say like, let's say you have like triangles where the top is here and it goes this way and there's your triangle, right?
Tab Salsman
They said that when the process of pasteurization with milk, it like flips it. And so you're trying to put an upside down triangle. It needs to be the point up. And that's what we fill is that conflict of battle, of trying to absorb something that it can't, doesn't know how to absorb. Right. And I was like, I don't know how true that is, but everything I read, it sounds like that's what goes on in that simple idea of putting blocks in a shape made so much visual sense to me.
Tab Salsman
It, it, it, it seems to be true. I don't know
Mike Catherwood
exactly. The reality is, is like even, even on a, on a much more easy to kind of, something that I could get through my stupid skull is that, you know, when you're starting to get into really high level physique sports, body building and whatnot, people will talk about like, well, how much protein do you eat?
Mike Catherwood
I go, it doesn't really matter. It's how much protein are you absorbing?
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And so that's why even in the last, in the last 10 years, it's really jumped a huge, uh, huge amount where you're starting to see. For the most part, people who are very, very disregarding to their health and being bodybuilders.
Mike Catherwood
They all, all they wanted was to look. They could care less. They're starting to get into things like gut health, like to an extreme level. They're like really investing a lot into gut health and fermented foods and, and, and you know, unpasteurized dairy, things like that because they're realizing how much of an advantage it gives them with their physique because you can eat 300 grams of protein, but if it's all kind of lower quality or if it doesn't sit with you, it, not much of it is gonna be assimilated to the system.
Mike Catherwood
And like, you wanna maximize that ability.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Good. I look like a new man.
Tab Salsman
You got that Josh Burland squareness.
Mike Catherwood
And I got this sweet little flip.
Tab Salsman
You getting this little, yeah,
Mike Catherwood
it's like, it's like a little bit, it's like early. So flippy. It's like early Carol Brady. Like remember Mrs. Brady? She had like that, that like flip moment.
Tab Salsman
Dude, my kids love the Brady Bunch.
Mike Catherwood
I do too,
Tab Salsman
dude. It's on Paramount.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
You've been watching that. My kids love that Gilligan's Island and I love Lucy. Like, and they loved Alice. Like why is it that they find all of those shows way more fun?
Mike Catherwood
How old?
Tab Salsman
Six and eight.
Mike Catherwood
That's why because,
Tab Salsman
but they, they find it funnier than the stuff that should be for six and eight in today's programming.
Tab Salsman
I find that to be, uh, an interesting just
Mike Catherwood
observation. Yeah. My daughter, my daughter and I literally don't watch anything that came out after. Well, that's not true 'cause we just got into, uh, modern family. Um, I haven't watched
Tab Salsman
that.
Mike Catherwood
It's, it's awesome. I never watched it when it was on, but now like that's a, um, it's a really fantastic show.
Mike Catherwood
Um, but, uh, we, uh, a lot of, um, a lot of Adam's family, a lot of, uh, Brady Bunch, a lot of Scooby Original Scooby Doo.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. That
Mike Catherwood
the
Tab Salsman
Tubby Tubby.
Mike Catherwood
And it's so fun and it's, that's great. You know, my, my suspicion is, and the only reason I say that is because like I said, we started watching Modern Family and my daughter, who doesn't have the experience in life that I have, uh, she says, I really don't like that they don't have the studio laughter.
Tab Salsman
She likes the studio.
Mike Catherwood
She loves it. She says, because there's something that even if it's not as funny or if it's not as good, something about a group of people experiencing comedy or experiencing joy together makes me want to be a part of it. And I go like, that's, it's totally true. Like,
Tab Salsman
yeah. Yeah. My kids wanted to know where the audience, where were the people laughing?
Tab Salsman
They had to like, know where it was
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. Coming
Tab Salsman
from. Like, they just added that and they go, so there wasn't a people watching I
Speaker unclear
go
Mike Catherwood
not,
Tab Salsman
not on uh, Gilligan's Island.
Mike Catherwood
No, not on Gilligan's Island. No. But I was saying you watch, you know, most sitcoms, there's a, having Mary Day married a very successful sitcom actress.
Mike Catherwood
I, I got the chance to, it's a, the, the sitcom crowd is weird. It's a strange thing. But as much as I used to bemoan it and then I'd watch something like The Office and you'd realize, oh, it's not necessary. If it's funny, it's funny. There is something charming. From a very, and from admittedly a childish level.
Mike Catherwood
Mm-hmm. But it's charming to hear a bunch of people laughing. It makes you happier.
Tab Salsman
You know? I don't think, I mean, that's why I think comedy is such a, had such a degree insurgence and why it's so popular here and why people like going to concerts. Like, I think it's a, a way of finding community and a way that nobody really has that like, well, third space anymore.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. No one has it
Mike Catherwood
true.
Tab Salsman
So you can go to a rock concert or a rap artist or whatever, even a sporting event, you're around a community of other people who share that same excitement for that same thing.
Mike Catherwood
One thing I like too about kind of the movement of culture right now is that I feel like, because people all day, every day, whether they like it or not, like you and I watched a half hour of news maybe a day.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
You know, when you're 20 or something and you try to stay up to date with shit, but you'd like, maybe you'd listen to a radio, talk radio on the way home from I
Tab Salsman
did. My dad was a huge ammo.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. So that's, that was like, but what's that 40 minutes? You know, like me now, everyone, everything political and like current events we're so inundated with it and then people yell at each other about it all day.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I don't think people have any space to then ghost see a comedy standup show that's about anything serious or like mopey. So it pushed the comics, I think to be a little bit more goofy. And I like that. I like goofy, you know?
Tab Salsman
Oh, I love goofy. I love it. There's uh. Unless my pit, my both my boys are learn piano right now.
Tab Salsman
And, uh, like once they've understood chords
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
They're just actually like, just playing stuff. That sounds great. Right? I I'm like, my God, they got my music gene. Thank goodness. You know? Um, but so there's like a really funny comedian who plays piano, Victor Borch, and
Tab Salsman
like, who's this guy? I'm like, we're gonna, we're gonna look him up.
Tab Salsman
Like,
Tab Salsman
he does this, these funny gifts with playing piano. And I'm like, that's like the silly shit that like, doesn't just happen
Tab Salsman
anymore.
Mike Catherwood
No. But I, I think, like I said, you're starting to see resurgence. I, 'cause I know, I mean, at least I'll speak for myself and I'm someone who has a little bit more of a high appreciation for like, the art of it being that I'm so friendly with very, very successful comics.
Mike Catherwood
Like, I, I, I, I, I deeply appreciate kind of the craft.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
But I still, I like, there's something about, I think it is, I think it is like the 24 hour news cycle and people's division and anger and social media and whatnot. There's something just so I don't, to me it's very stimulating and very, uh, very liberating to then go pay money and take the time to go see another grown adult talk about farts and stuff.
Mike Catherwood
You know, like there's some, it's very, very therapeutic. I think right now to me, you know, when I did not hear about
Tab Salsman
Who's
Mike Catherwood
Palestine? You not hear about, you know what, like to hear about like,
Tab Salsman
who's a, do you have a comedian, like one of your favorites? Like all time living or dead?
Mike Catherwood
Living or dead? Uh, I mean, Louis.
Mike Catherwood
Louis for sure, you know, I know the, the, the, the Louis CK, yeah.
Tab Salsman
Oh, he's great.
Mike Catherwood
I'm sure the controversy has tainted some people's view of, but like the, the, the fact that Louis could talk so deeply about things like parenting, things like racism, things like that, but do it in a way that I always knew there was gonna be like, and then Jesus shit on his face.
Mike Catherwood
You know, like, okay, where are we? Go? Like there, I, I had always kept me, he kept me entertained and, and, and, and very intellectually stimulated, but at the same time, I always knew that there was gonna be that complete off the wall slapstick element. And that, and that is very, very likable to me. I, Shane Gillis is great right now.
Mike Catherwood
Like, as far as like newer guys,
Tab Salsman
he's fun.
Mike Catherwood
Mark Norman's great. Um,
Tab Salsman
yeah,
Mike Catherwood
I think like I've always liked Sam Tripoli personally and, and professionally. I think Sam's a great guy. Um, and I, again, like I said, I, I don't really, people, I think especially in the late night, you know, when, when we were kind of finding ourselves, there was such a movement of like the alt comedy scene, like the, you know, the New York kind of like in intellectual hip beat guys.
Mike Catherwood
And I get that, like some of, I,
Tab Salsman
I don't know who that would be.
Mike Catherwood
Like the Gene Rocko, David Cross, kind of like that.
Tab Salsman
I didn't get that. Like, for me it was George Carlin.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Um, Richard Pryor. And David Atel.
Mike Catherwood
I tell, I'll tell
Tab Salsman
you Po saying
Mike Catherwood
Patel's a murderer. Dude. Atel,
Tab Salsman
if there was ever to be like the most awarded like sniper of jokes, he's, he's so good.
Mike Catherwood
Well and so good. You know, like Atel, I
Tab Salsman
introduced him 'cause he had a shoe on Comedy Center.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. Uh,
Tab Salsman
was
Mike Catherwood
after night or No, late night late
Speaker unclear
or,
Tab Salsman
or Oh God, I remember. You know what it is? I can't remember the
Mike Catherwood
name. I can't believe, like, shit from like 2005. You and I are like, what was it called again?
Tab Salsman
Well, it was also like my introduction to Zach Galvin Aki.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
When he
Tab Salsman
had that show
Tab Salsman
on, uh, BH one. Mm-hmm. Late night was Zach. Mm-hmm. And then I remember one of the episode he's interviewing Snoop Dogg in the back of like a
Speaker unclear
low
Mike Catherwood
rider
Tab Salsman
cruising through something. And I'm like, this guy's great. Who is this guy? And then I see him in the angle. I'm like, it's the dude who interviewed Snoop Dog.
Mike Catherwood
There's, there's a thing that I always said about David tell was,
Tab Salsman
hang on, lemme grab,
Mike Catherwood
I only met the man once. It's like out of all, all the like, bigger comics in that, especially that era. I was so lucky with my job I got, I usually got to know them. Like I became personally kind of, I got to know him. I only met Dave once at Tell, he's mostly a New York guy, so it was like, he was not in the LA scene.
Mike Catherwood
But what I said, always thought about David tell was he was like the pixie. Yeah. Of comedy in that all other musicians, like, like the Pixies, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah. And David, like you, you may not be into him, but everyone who tells a joke for a living knows David tells a murderer, you know?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know one comic at all that I could ever, that I could ever that wouldn't agree that David tells a genius, you know?
Tab Salsman
Oh, David tells a comments
Mike Catherwood
comment. Yes. That's probably a more, uh, much more concise way of saying that.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. I just remember, I think it was like up all night or
Mike Catherwood
whatever it was called up night.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah, I think it was.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. And I was like, this guy's hysterical. And, uh, and then I
Mike Catherwood
don't remember which one I saw first. I
Tab Salsman
actually,
Mike Catherwood
I think I saw David Atel
Tab Salsman
first and then,
Mike Catherwood
uh, and then I saw Mike Rose Dirty
Tab Salsman
Work,
Mike Catherwood
right? Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And I was like, oh my God.
Mike Catherwood
It's the daytime version of David Batel. Like we could, and their personalities reflect like the after Midnight
Tab Salsman
Crowd
Mike Catherwood
and the nine to five, or like,
Tab Salsman
like Mike, I love Mike.
Tab Salsman
I would love to talk to Mike because I think Mike and his idea of skills and trades and my dad's electrical contractor, electrician, I'm hairdresser. These are all skilled trades, like it's up alley. But uh, I was like, Mike's the perfect guy for talking about like jobs he do as a trade. It's between when the sun's up and when it goes down.
Tab Salsman
And then David tell is the, a great representation of the people who probably work when the sun is down. Like every man who ever worked a night job, they had like a really dark, twisted sense of humor.
Mike Catherwood
Oh yeah.
Tab Salsman
I don't think there's anything to do at two o'clock in the morning.
Mike Catherwood
The same like talk to cops and paramedics and stuff.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. You would like, or
Tab Salsman
people who are in the armed forces, their, their sense of humor.
Mike Catherwood
Gallo's humor's a real thing.
Tab Salsman
Yeah, absolutely.
Mike Catherwood
Well, it's funny you brought up my growth, like when I was talking to my agent the other day and he was asking me about like the direction I'm going with, you know, rebounding and doing the podcast in a different way.
Mike Catherwood
And then also wanting to market the Meatheads Guide to Salvation. But on top of that, like I'm very close to releasing a training book and it's this female specific training book.
Tab Salsman
Oh, cool.
Mike Catherwood
Um, and it's called Flex in the City. So
Tab Salsman
keep going.
Mike Catherwood
By the time this gets released, it might be ready to go. When,
Tab Salsman
when are you thinking about releasing that?
Mike Catherwood
Probably like next week,
Tab Salsman
so that's
Mike Catherwood
amazing. Very, very soon. But, but I've been working on it hard and I'm just like, put, putting the effort in. Right. Doing the work. Yeah. Like we're talking about. But we were talking about like where I want to go with that. I said, you know what, honestly, you wanna know where I wanna go with it.
Mike Catherwood
I don't have any grand ideas. What I want to do is, there was always like home improvement and uh, blue collar documentary TV since there had been tv. Yeah. There's been guys that would throw on a tool belt or they'd throw on their blue jeans and they'd go around and be like, this is a, then micro came along.
Mike Catherwood
You're like, oh, this guy's fucking cool. Yeah, my daughter's black and his voice is amazing. And then I
Tab Salsman
have a funeral and I want him to narrate
Mike Catherwood
it. Yeah. Well then more after that tab was, there's two,
Tab Salsman
two specifics of, and my wife knows about him. She doesn't know about the micro. The other one is that, um, instead of having like, uh, like Christian hymns and all that, I want Queens and I one bites dust to play.
Mike Catherwood
Oh, strong. It's a strong call.
Tab Salsman
It's also my sense of humor.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. People, people, people be, they'd be feeling bad laughing, but you'd have to
Tab Salsman
elaborate. That's him.
Mike Catherwood
Right girl. And I was like, and that's what I would like to do, because I see there's like a fitness community and there's the guys and there's the girls.
Mike Catherwood
And I'm like, well, they fucking fuck these people. Like, why isn't there just someone who people would want to hang out with that also would, and then I was in the same regard. I said, okay, so you have Mike Rowe. And then there was, since the beginning of television, there had been culinary based television.
Mike Catherwood
There had been culinary programming and people, they always had, it was like someone will come on the local news in a, in a fucking chef's hat or A-A-A-A-A smock or something. And then, you know, there was that. And then they're gonna tell you how to make this or that. And everyone, you know, Julia Child came along, she had her own style, and that was a thing.
Mike Catherwood
But I was like, then Bourdain came, oh, and you're like, this guy's fucking sweet. And he also had a deep, passionate and powerful understanding of food. I was like, okay, that's what I wanna do. But with fitness, that's great because every, every shit who comes on is either so jacked. And, and is like trying to talk to you while he's wearing his Zumba and his sleeveless shirt.
Mike Catherwood
Or it's some like, like your mom's friend who's gonna tell you to do Zumba and you're like, shut the fuck up Lady with your frpa. I was like, why isn't it just like, is there anyone cool that I wanna listen to? And so I was like, that's what I want to do, and I think I can do it. You
Tab Salsman
so you're gonna do it.
Mike Catherwood
I'm gonna do it.
Tab Salsman
If you're gonna do a show, are you gonna travel around?
Mike Catherwood
I don't know. I, I don't know. I mean,
Tab Salsman
Jim galore and
Mike Catherwood
I think that's a thing anymore. Like the idea of like doing a TV show, it's like, but I I more so is that like, if there's going to a person, like there's fitness personalities, right?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. And some of 'em are great. I I'm, I'm not, I'm not saying that they all suck. What I am saying is like, there is fitness personality and you know that per, like, they go on the late night show. Yeah. Like Jack Lane. They do, you know? Yeah. Or moving on to Tony Little, to Jillian Michaels and there's fitness personality person.
Mike Catherwood
I was like, why isn't there just someone who's sweet, but also happens to talk fitness?
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
I was like, maybe I'm not saying I'm sweet, but I'll be like that. I'm not that guy. I'm not like Fit Gym guy. I just happen. Like, it's super, I love it. I love it. And I, I, I mean, I will take, I'll take the Pepsi challenge.
Mike Catherwood
I know what I'm talking, talking about. I, I, I, deep, deep, passionate.
Tab Salsman
It's, it almost reminds me of like, somebody feed Phil. He's not a food guy. No. But he loves food and he knows about it.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Like, he's, he's a personal connoisseur.
Mike Catherwood
It's a great, it's a great analogy. Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Like what I love about somebody feed Phil is that he's not a chef.
Tab Salsman
He's guy who was passionate about food and getting to know things. And I was like, I just like, and he's curious.
Mike Catherwood
Mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
Curiosity is, you know, just a, uh, like I think the people that have the, I mean who was curious, like all the two were talking about, they were curious and they were genuinely interested about what whoever they're talking to, they weren't just trying to like get their agenda across.
Mike Catherwood
And that, that is what bothered me. That's a very good point. And I agree. And that's what bothered me about doing a lot of the television that I did. I feel bad saying it because everyone I worked with was fucking amazing and they treated me so well. And, but it was so hard because like, I, I think we talked about before we got on here, like most, a lot of people would kill to have certain hosting gigs and televis, like they would line up around the block and I'd be doing that.
Mike Catherwood
I'd be like, but I don't really care about, like, I can't, am I supposed to, you told me
Tab Salsman
the reason you get hosting, you don't care. So maybe the reason you I run around with a circle of friends that I do is 'cause I truly, at the end of the day, I probably don't
Tab Salsman
care.
Tab Salsman
Just say I don't care about them. My friends, I don't care what's attached to them.
Tab Salsman
I like them as people. And
Tab Salsman
so
Tab Salsman
like I understand that you didn't care about it because you didn't care about it. It came to you. Again, it's a weird outlook about like what you're drawn towards and
Mike Catherwood
may true,
Tab Salsman
but I had a couple clients who were very like on the woo woo side, I said, it's because you didn't care that you get it.
Tab Salsman
You're not seeking it. And I thought that was, and I'm like, yeah, I don't seek most of these things.
Mike Catherwood
It's just that I'm
Tab Salsman
story I told you at the airport yesterday.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. I wasn't
Tab Salsman
seeking it. It just. I'm
Mike Catherwood
genuinely interested in stuff.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
You know, and like the stuff I'm genuinely interested in, it seems to just kind of always come back
Tab Salsman
to fitness.
Mike Catherwood
And so that's, yeah. And, and I, fitness for me too is like, it was much more than like, I abs and biceps. It was like, it really became a vital part of my recovery and staying clean.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
By the way, 23 years today.
Tab Salsman
Congratulations.
Mike Catherwood
Thank you. Yeah. I can't, I forgot. I almost forgotten it was driving over here was, I was like, it's, it's October 23rd.
Mike Catherwood
Oh yeah.
Tab Salsman
It's like the opposite of, uh, that movie with, uh, Lindsay Lohan. It was October 7th or whatever that date is that they always show from, uh, the Mean
Mike Catherwood
Girls Freaky Friday. Oh, mean Girls.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. I've never seen it. I just
Mike Catherwood
You've never seen Mean Girls.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Mean Girls kicks ass. Never. You should watch Mean Girls.
Tab Salsman
I don't know.
Mike Catherwood
Is your muffin buttered? Would you like me to
Tab Salsman
I also haven't seen Freaky Friday.
Mike Catherwood
Freaky or Friday just came out
Tab Salsman
kicks ass dude. Yeah. My buddy was in, uh, the first one. I actually think he was in the second one too. He was
Mike Catherwood
handsome. Belong to?
Tab Salsman
No, no, no. Uh, Amir, AK, he was in Orgy. He, he was, uh, Lindsay's guitar coach for the first one.
Mike Catherwood
Oh, okay.
Tab Salsman
And he's the one who announces like, Hey, for Wego Tango, the announcer guy.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah,
Tab Salsman
that's my buddy.
Mike Catherwood
Okay.
Tab Salsman
And then he, uh, he was, I believe he has a, a, a spot in the second one too.
Mike Catherwood
Uh, now, was Amir the dude who was also in Dead by Sunrise, or was the other dude in Orgy?
Tab Salsman
No, they, they both were, so both the guitar players from Orgy were in Dead by Sunrise, and they were in Julian K, which is like their own syn pop, uh, band.
Tab Salsman
So, yeah. Yeah. I met them when I, I was like, what? They were like the number two or three video on TRL.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
I was like 16 playing the Roxy. And Ryan knocks on the door. He like, Hey, can we party in this room? We're like, yeah, you're, you're on TRL. Like, I'm not gonna say now. I
Mike Catherwood
think we can.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. We were just playing with friends band at the Roxy, and I was like, fuck, this is insane.
Mike Catherwood
It's weird when that, it's weird. We try to bypass that, that awkwardness of someone being successful or famous.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
Like, so
Tab Salsman
it's like you just have to like go like, yeah, whatever.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. You can hang out with like, I'm not gonna tell you. No.
Mike Catherwood
Or it's like Taylor Hawkins giving Taylor Hawkins a ride in a K Rock vehicle. And, and I was, you know, God rest his soul. But it's just like, he's like, do you think I can get a ride back to that? And I was like, yeah, I think you can. Pretty sure you just fucking destroyed.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
You know, with the Foo Fighters, I'm pretty sure I can give you a ride back to the Marriott and Irvine or wherever the fuck we were going, you know?
Tab Salsman
That's, yeah. My, uh, my, my roommate, uh, in my mid twenties managed. A bunch of bands. And uh, one of the bands was this group called Automatic Love Letter.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And so Bamboozle was at the Irvine, like millionaires were playing the bravery the whole lot. Right. And most of the people he was managing all crashed at my apartment.
Tab Salsman
So he had like automatic love letter. Some of the dudes from escaped the fa It was just like, this randomly, like in the morning I'm like, waking up 'cause I'm actually gonna go pick up my cousin who's like a teenager Yeah. To go see Bamboozle. And like, I'm like literally stepping over all these people. I was like, we'll, believe it.
Tab Salsman
Um, and she's like, she's like, you could, she's like, I could just been dropped off at your place for my aunt, your mom, my mom could just dropped me off. I'm like, yeah, I don't, it's gonna just be wild. Like, I just don't come over.
Mike Catherwood
Do you, speaking of that, 'cause you've had that experience, did you, do you ever know someone before they became who they are and, and know it,
Tab Salsman
know that they're gonna get big?
Mike Catherwood
Like, or like, do, do you ever, were you ever around someone and you were like, there's something about this dude or something like, and and the next thing you know, they become whoever they are.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. Yeah. There's been a couple of those times
Mike Catherwood
because I, there's
Tab Salsman
been a couple of those where, I mean, I remember
Speaker unclear
working,
Mike Catherwood
I used feel like when he was just sunny and,
Tab Salsman
well, I used to do from first to last hair.
Mike Catherwood
Oh, okay. So yeah, you should, so
Tab Salsman
I did, I did the notes of self video and everything.
Mike Catherwood
But like, he was, he was just different. He was like, you're like, God. But
Tab Salsman
he was always talking about Apex Twin
Mike Catherwood
and, and Yes. And, and, and like. And like psychedelic bands that I'd never heard of, you know what I'm saying? Like,
Tab Salsman
and the funny thing is his a LL screen name Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Was Skrillex. So I saw him years later. It was 2010. I remember we were at the, the at Dre's, uh, on Hollywood Boulevard and Tony and Guy, which is the salon I worked at at the time, they, I had one like fan favorite hairdresser of the year, and I just won my award. We're all celebrating at Dre's. And who's DJing?
Tab Salsman
Steve Aoki. No news of the fuck. Fuck he, yeah. This is 2010. Yeah. He's just starting to get like that music, starting to have like a hold on the LA and I see Sonny, you can't miss him. I mean, you can't miss him. He
Mike Catherwood
was
Tab Salsman
a little guy.
Mike Catherwood
So little. Yeah.
Tab Salsman
I, I, somebody's like, somebody's like, what's he like? I go, like, at the time he was like, shorten all the black.
Tab Salsman
I'm like, it's like a goth Hobbit running around. But he's not. But he's just, he feels shorter than he is because everybody I knew, like Jason and them, they're all gigantic. So everyone's like six three. And then there's, you know, Sunday, who's not six three. And I was hammered and I punched him really hard right in the arm, like really hard.
Tab Salsman
And he turned around like ready to be like, and he saw me and he was like. Dude. And I was like, oh good, I'm glad this turned out right. But, uh, he's like, yeah, man, I'm going, uh, I'm gonna be on tour at dad house. I'm like, cool. Like, what are you, what are you doing? Whatcha you
Mike Catherwood
gonna do with
Tab Salsman
it? Like, what are you doing?
Tab Salsman
Like what are you, what are you doing? Because
Mike Catherwood
are you, are you, are you his key grip?
Tab Salsman
No. Well, I usually was doing something, but I didn't know what he was doing. Right. And he's like, oh, I, uh, I'm DJing. I go, oh, cool. What do you, are you calling yourself Sonny? Because like, that was like the first thing. He has a name that you would not, it's not a normal name like John, you know?
Tab Salsman
Um, he's like, no, no, I'm going as a, I'm going as Skrilly. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, you're a on semester. He is like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, that's
Mike Catherwood
so funny.
Tab Salsman
I'm like, all right, alright. There you go. Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. I remember being like warped tours and shit and like that. I was like, there's some, like all these dudes are talented and they were motivated and I was like, there's something different.
Mike Catherwood
He's different. He's a different thing. You know?
Tab Salsman
Yeah. The same thing also about Ronnie Ronnie Rekey.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Tab Salsman
I mean like, I can't tell.
Mike Catherwood
See, I didn't, I didn't get to know him 'cause he is so much younger than me too. I didn't get to know him until he was already a big deal.
Tab Salsman
So I met him because label hired me to help them curate their look for state to face's first photo shoot.
Mike Catherwood
Nice.
Tab Salsman
When they're in the neon bone. Yeah. Yeah. That was on me. Like I had cut all their hair that day. We shot it. Um, and so I've, I've known him since then, you know, and uh, that was, and that's when I became friends with their, their uh, their manager who became my roommate at the time. Um, and yeah, you just knew there was something very magnetic about like him
Mike Catherwood
this, he's my number one of guy because like my.
Mike Catherwood
Friend. Like my, my friend network is all like, people who are gonna compare, like the first three albums of, you know, f Pantera's, first three albums versus anything else. They're like, you know, early Death metal in Florida Grind Court and stuff like, so Ronnie Rack, he's like, fuck that. And I was like, dude, you guys, he like, he's so talented.
Mike Catherwood
He kicks so much fucking, like, I'm that guy who like all the like fan zs or websites of the dudes who would make fun of him the most.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Like, I'm out there. I was like, listen, I get it. I understand what you're, 'cause he dresses like he, you know, he's and the front row of the Laker game and blah. But like, he really, really talent, like a thought provoking artist.
Mike Catherwood
That's really good.
Tab Salsman
He's super talented. Yeah. And I remember when like, he was like rapping. I'm like, I have a video Yeah. Of him rapping from that photo shoot like I did when I was like 24. And it's like, that's like almost 20 years ago. And uh, like you just knew that there's certain people who have that.
Tab Salsman
Then, you know, there's people who get close to it all the time. They're like, they live right on the edge of the, the, like he has a spotlight on him and then there's people who are right on the outskirts, you know.
Mike Catherwood
Well, the other one, the other time that happened to me was, and this was, I was young and I was like, not only young, but like a dipshit, like I was really like a bonehead, you know?
Mike Catherwood
And, but you know, I grew up with guys that worked for Big Brother Magazine.
Tab Salsman
Oh yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Uh, like a bunch, like that was my neighborhood that was like that area in the, in the San Gabriel Valley. And I was not a very good skater, but I mean, I, that was, I was amidst the culture, you know, in the mid nineties. Same here.
Mike Catherwood
And so I would be around these dudes and I would hang out and Dave k and Tremaine and all, they were around, you know, like the, like the early jackass guys. Like, they were there and they would film skate parts and it would be a big deal. 'cause you never knew who was gonna be coming in like that era like that, the, the Dwan song.
Mike Catherwood
So like the early, like mid nineties, and Mike, Mike v and those dudes would be skating. So you want to go be a part of it. And if I get the invite, I get the invite and I go, this one time I, I forgot where we were, but we were somewhere LA County go to the skate park and they were filming stuff and it was like, they were starting to get like really artistic with it.
Mike Catherwood
Right. And there's this dude there and I don't, I don't really know. I, I,
Tab Salsman
I, me get this off here real quick. Hang on.
Mike Catherwood
No problem. I'm working with, I'm, I'm there with the people who invite me, but they're my friends who are like tangentially, like, they're like Aaron boys at Big Brother. So they had happen to know it was going down and they gave me an invite.
Mike Catherwood
I don't know, people, I'm not like in the, in crowd. So I'm sitting back watching shit happen and there's a guy there and he's like, all the other dudes are wearing super baggy jeans and, you know, Etnas in DC Well, you know, it was mid nineties skate scene. Yeah. In this case where you, like, he wearing a fucking tie.
Mike Catherwood
Remember he was wearing a tie in like a, like a. A dress shirt, but like unto and, and, but I was like, who this guy? And, but he was clearly like the DP or the director. And, and he was, and he had these ideas and he was standing and he was weird. He was just a weird guy, but not weird in like a disturbing way.
Mike Catherwood
Weird. And like I was, I found him fascinating.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And I was like, what? There's something up with that guy. There's, that guy's got something special about it. It was fucking Spike Jones.
Tab Salsman
I was gonna ask you if it was Spike Jones
Mike Catherwood
and I, this is, you know, I'm 15, 16 years old. I don't know shit about shit.
Tab Salsman
But
Mike Catherwood
he's, and by, at the time, he wasn't a filmer, he was a he was a photographer.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
But he happened to be in the skates. He like legitimately involved in the skate team. So they, he was there and I was like, man, there's so, and I just remember, I'll never forget that notion of like, I don't know shit about shit. I don't even know who this guy is or what he's doing. There's something, there's something about that.
Mike Catherwood
He's like, yeah, there's something going. There's an energy he has.
Tab Salsman
Yeah, there's, there's, okay, so you're talking about actors about that. I was singing my music. I did a shoot helping out a buddy. I did the hair for it and there was this girl and there was something just super magnetic about her. Mm-hmm. One beautiful second thing.
Tab Salsman
Super sweet, super nice. She's on Chicago fire.
Mike Catherwood
Oh,
Tab Salsman
nice. Her name's Miranda Mayo, like I met her.
Mike Catherwood
Oh, she's super hot. Yeah, she's super flaming hot. Yeah,
Tab Salsman
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh, like, we still keep in contact and all, but like, I just knew that like, this girl is, there's, there's something like about her and she would ask me like periodically like, Hey, can you help me do this for this maximum event?
Tab Salsman
And like, it was always like the worst timing. So it sounded like I was trying to like. Get out of it. I just couldn't, I just couldn't do it. But, um, yeah, she's, uh, I, 'cause what happens is everybody likes to make her hair cur straight and, uh, for the shoot, I said, let's just, let's just rock your curl. She's like, oh my God, nobody ever, finally I'm, I'm like, finally somebody wants to wear my hair curl.
Tab Salsman
I'm like, dude, you have these beautiful curls. Like, let's do this shit. And, uh, yeah, we just hit it off and she was just rad. And she's just super sweet and super cool.
Mike Catherwood
I love when that works out in that direction.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And I've hated it when it's worked out in the opposite
Tab Salsman
where they don't get it
Mike Catherwood
no where.
Tab Salsman
Well, they turn into a jerk.
Mike Catherwood
I'm like, there's something wrong with this guy. Oh. Like, there, like, I don't,
Tab Salsman
I've had some
Mike Catherwood
weird, I don't trust this bitch one bit. And then sure enough, and it turns out they're like, you know, they get some scandal. Jaso introduced me to, of all the, I love Ryan Jaso, by the way. I will.
Mike Catherwood
I hate, I hate to that he might hear this, but I love him. He's a great, he's such a great guy and he's
Tab Salsman
great.
Mike Catherwood
Uh, but he introduced me to some chick 'cause I, for a time I did a podcast with Jaso and Chain and those guy, and they brought on some girl. And from the moment I sat down I was like, what's was this bitch?
Mike Catherwood
And sure enough she got like involved in like a serious scandal or she was like abusing people that some Asian girl,
Tab Salsman
oh,
Mike Catherwood
an chick.
Tab Salsman
Talk about things where they end up. Do you remember in MySpace that Forbidden Chick?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
She would come over to her house and play pool. Um,
Mike Catherwood
oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to interrupt you.
Mike Catherwood
This girl founded like God's girls. It was like suicides girls, but like
Tab Salsman
of those things. Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Okay.
Tab Salsman
Yeah,
Mike Catherwood
she was like the, like the girl behind it.
Tab Salsman
Oh, I don't know.
Mike Catherwood
So I was like going in, I was like, I don't know, maybe she's like an impresario. She's, and then she starts talking shit. And I was like, wait, what's wrong?
Mike Catherwood
And then also she was like, wildly mis and like a lot of grammatical errors and shit. I was like, fuck this chick.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I knew right from the start like, there's something really wrong with this chick.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. Uh, I remember that whole thing happening and I was like, it's just not, it's just not my vibe That's like, I'm not into that kind of thing.
Tab Salsman
Like the, the God's girls or whatever it was. But that Christine Dolce chick.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Um, what was it, beer pong, right? Yeah. We, they had rafts that we'd bring to the pool that were beer pong, floating pool rafts. And we would just like, pretty
Mike Catherwood
sweet
Tab Salsman
actually, dude, it was, it was awesome. We're like Newport Beach playing like beer pong in a pool and, uh, her and her friends would show up.
Tab Salsman
'cause my man, 'cause my roommate was like working with her, managing her for like social media stuff, random shit like that. And you, and she got wildly outta control. Drunk.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Not like she got wild with drinking. She just became like so sloppy. Like, I remember like they, her friends were like, we have to like literally carry her out of here.
Tab Salsman
'cause she then eventually, I think she like died by alcohol poisoning. I found out that she had drank herself to death, but like the writing was on the wall. Like, if she doesn't get this, get this together. She's gonna go that way.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah,
Tab Salsman
she's not. And it happened and it was just, I found out about that a few years ago.
Tab Salsman
'cause somebody made a comment. I'm like, wait, I was jogging back memories of like all these people. It's like, that sucks. Also, that same party too was like also my, our buddy Mike, who ended up becoming, um, on that mel, that modeling show with, uh, Tyra Banks.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah, yeah, yeah. America's Next
Tab Salsman
Top model. Yeah, yeah.
Tab Salsman
Something like that. Yeah. And I was just like in a, I was in a hotel room traveling and I flipped the channel on just to turn on the news and it's that show. And I'm like, oh man, that guy looks just like Mike. And then I look and I'm like, holy fuck, this looks exactly like Mike. So I had to hit up Mike and I'm like, Mike, I'm watching this show that looks just like you.
Tab Salsman
He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's me. I'm like, I never thought I'd ever, I I, I never thought he would ever go for underwear modeling, you know? Yeah. But there he was.
Mike Catherwood
If you have on national
Tab Salsman
tv,
Mike Catherwood
an underwear
Tab Salsman
under, under,
Mike Catherwood
if you're a dude and you can be an underwear bottle, might as well be an underwear bottle.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. It was just funny, like that whole thing,
Mike Catherwood
like the idea that someone would pay me to put on my underwear would fucking insane, insane thing. Uh, but yeah, you know, I, I guess also I, I think growing up in Southern California, nowadays with the internet, it doesn't really matter where you live. You could be talking to a celebrity, but growing up in that environment is so weird when you see that shit take off, you know?
Tab Salsman
Oh,
Mike Catherwood
I, I would imagine it's probably huge for you with, with bands, but I just,
Tab Salsman
well, I remember watching Lincoln Park play before the record came out. Yeah. It's just like, and I was like, these guys are gonna be gigantic. And the same thing happened with Fosters of people.
Mike Catherwood
You, mark fos, mark fos, know those guys that you were around him were like, there's something special about this.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
He's so talented. But, uh, you were talking about Shabo. I have my, I have my system of a Down story and, and s is the only one who really loves hearing it. And like, you can see, I, you know, and like I,
Tab Salsman
my wife is a huge system of a Down fan.
Mike Catherwood
Well, and they're great guys. Yeah. They're fucking great guys.
Mike Catherwood
But, um, I moved back to LA uh, after I graduated high school, I was trying to like, make it as I was gonna be the next big rock star. You know? Of course that didn't work out, but the lifestyle took over, you know, and so I'm, I'm back in la it's 97 ish. And, um, I'm trying to figure out what I'm gonna do. I'm thinking make, maybe I can go to college.
Mike Catherwood
I'll, maybe I'll trade junior college. I don't know, but I'm, I have to get a job. My parents are like, you can't just fucking crash out here and be Abu. So I get a bunch of jobs, right? One of them is, I'm a night watchman. At a rehearsal studio.
Tab Salsman
Oh, wow. Downtown la
Mike Catherwood
No, the Valley. Okay. It was like, uh, this is like, um, let's say like NIZ Burbank area, like Birmingham, more like Burbank.
Tab Salsman
Okay.
Mike Catherwood
North Hollywood. And I would be there and I would, you know, and it was a go cool drive. They drew, people were cool. There wasn't a lot of like fist fights or shit, you know, bad behavior, but there were these fucking dorks. And the only reason I say that, I'm not talking shit. They were dorks, they were pimple face kids.
Mike Catherwood
They were like my age. And they wore comic book t-shirts and anime t-shirts and shit. And they were Armenian and they'd all, and they'd play all day. They'd fucking play music all day.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And Darren, who ended up being like more, one of the more introverted guys, he, he would talk to me, he would hang out.
Mike Catherwood
Like when everybody, and he's like, we're gonna be fucking huge stars. And, and, and
Tab Salsman
he said it.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. He's like, we're gonna be, and I was like, because he was a nice guy. I was like, I hope so. You know, but internally I'm like, fuck God. Because they were like, they were, they were, it wasn't like meeting when I met Josh Hammi, like, like pre like Kayas era, Josh Hammi.
Mike Catherwood
I was like, this guy's a rock star. He is six with five. And he was, you know what I'm saying? Like yeah. They, they were like little dorks and they were my age. And I was like, sure you are dude. Internally. Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Oh yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And. Like a month later, he is like, oh, we're on Offset. And he shut the fuck up. Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And I was, I was like, what, what's your band name? They were like, oh, we're a system. And then, and then sure enough, I moved to, uh, the East coast and like a year, a year later after that, after that situation, like a year later, uh, toxicity comes out. Oh. I'm like, these guys did it. They did it. They fucking did it.
Mike Catherwood
Totally. Dude. It's awesome. I love it. I love that, that I have this experience today. 'cause it surge was always so nice and just like soft spoken, like Darren's like we're gonna be, uh, fucking huge rockstar. So, you know, you can just plan on that. And I was like, all right, you good for I Bye. Do you sure put you sure Put in the work You guys rehearse all day.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Uh, and uh, was like, that was my awesome kind of like pre, pre star, star experience.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. There's, I I, somebody's like, oh, you only, that only happens 'cause you lived in California and I used to write it off. I used to be like, no, it can happen anywhere. But then I realized like, where else are they filming and producing movies and making music at that level.
Tab Salsman
New York.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Nashville. Now maybe if there's a show set in Chicago, but like, it wasn't like,
Mike Catherwood
no, I, I was in LA mean it's way, it was way bigger when we were kid, when we were growing up. I mean, like, if yo mean my wife's, my wife grew up outside Seattle. Mm-hmm. And she wanted to be an actor.
Tab Salsman
Where did she move?
Tab Salsman
She
Mike Catherwood
moved to LA.
Tab Salsman
She moved to LA
Mike Catherwood
and, uh, you know, it was like, I just, I didn't, it is another thing that's really, really weird is that I grew up like eight miles from Dodger Stadium.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I knew nobody in the entertainment industry. Like you people have this idea of like la like
Tab Salsman
everyone knows
Mike Catherwood
someone. No, no.
Mike Catherwood
There's like pockets of like, like Crossroads High and like Malibu in where you, the celebs and their kids and the, the people who work at studios and stuff,
Tab Salsman
they all know. They all know each other. Yeah. I,
Mike Catherwood
I was completely divorced from the entertainment industry and I grew up in like, Pasadena. Like, you're just divorced from it, you know what I'm saying?
Mike Catherwood
Now I grew up with like a ton of, uh, professional baseball players and like the couple NFL players, stuff like that. But
Tab Salsman
yeah, see I grew up from 10 to like 20. I was in Temecula.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
So like, there's nothing out there.
Mike Catherwood
Maybe some moto, like maybe some pro Moto guys, which
Tab Salsman
I don't know who they are. Yeah. I, I don't know.
Tab Salsman
But like the only band that was really like, that had really had come out of it was, uh, Finch.
Mike Catherwood
Oh yeah.
Tab Salsman
And, uh, I mean, I taught Alex the guitar player, how to play guitar. Like,
Mike Catherwood
nice.
Tab Salsman
There's some video circulating of us in our eighth grade talent show playing Sweet Dreams. The Marilyn Mans subversion.
Mike Catherwood
There's, there's a pretty big, there's a pretty big kind of rap rock new metal band that came from Temecula area. Fuck.
Tab Salsman
Uh, but
Mike Catherwood
I think like half the head PE guys came from that area.
Tab Salsman
I love head pe.
Mike Catherwood
Well, they had, they had their thing, they had their own sound and shit.
Tab Salsman
What I liked about 'em is like they were like funkier.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And like
Mike Catherwood
they absolutely were.
Tab Salsman
They just had their own thing. And I loved it.
Mike Catherwood
That whole cotton, like that's again
Tab Salsman
cotton mouth kinks.
Mike Catherwood
That's not
Speaker unclear
my
Tab Salsman
every day each with a rat mate. I just remember, that's
Mike Catherwood
not my shit. But I love, I love it. 'cause they had their own thing, man. I'll see. They had their own thing, you know,
Tab Salsman
top mouth kings.
Tab Salsman
I would never put them on, but when we would go wakeboarding.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
It was so fun to listen to when you're wakeboarding
Mike Catherwood
it's for happy music, man. Yeah. Like there, that was the kind of, I guess the bummer about, uh, growing up in the grunge era
Tab Salsman
mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
Is that like there was so much good views. Like some of those bands were.
Mike Catherwood
So you go back and you listen to Alison Chains and, and Sound Guard and you're like, God, how good were you guys? Insane. But everything, everything was such a bummer, you know? And, and, and sometimes, because I guess that was, I'm 46, I was born in 79, so hair metal and grunge were both my generation.
Tab Salsman
Mm-hmm.
Mike Catherwood
And to have the thing. And then growing up in Pasadena Van Halen, literally like they're fucking gods. You know, like Van Halen is everything.
Tab Salsman
It's amazing. Guitar goes in two steps. Jimi Hendrix.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
And then Van Halen.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Everything else outta that has been influenced by those two guys.
Mike Catherwood
And they like the Van Halen brothers.
Mike Catherwood
And, and even Mike, Mike Anthony's from Arcadia. So like my, that whole David Lee Ross's dad was a doctor who, Dr. Drew and his dad, Dr. Drew's dad used to practice with.
Tab Salsman
Wow.
Mike Catherwood
So like that's the whole like Pasadena incestual thing. That's
Tab Salsman
crazy.
Mike Catherwood
Um, but like, and that whole like, everybody be happy chicks and rocking like that vibe.
Mike Catherwood
I always loved that too. But at the same time, I remember, like, I remember where I was the first time I heard smells like Teen Spirit. I remember what happened and I was like, what the fuck? I've never seen shit like this. And, but then the problem was like, everything was so sad. Everything was so dark, man.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. And there's something that, you know, and I'm not like a big new metal limp Bty guy, but at the same time there's something awesome about like, happy upbeat music. It
Tab Salsman
was his party.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. Like party music. There is something to be said for that. You know, I wish you could message, I guess that's where I was, was, uh, such why one, another one of the reasons why I was such a big fan of Queens at S Stone Age, they're coming to town
Tab Salsman
soon.
Tab Salsman
God, that would be
Mike Catherwood
like, was because like they could, there was an artistic nature to it. There was always a very valid artistic ability, uh, kind of, uh, component. But it's like, let's go, let's have a good time. There didn't need to be such like a
Tab Salsman
Well, yeah. Not to mention he comes from Cais, which is just like,
Mike Catherwood
I remember Kai, uh, something about the high desert, the, the Red Moon Sun.
Mike Catherwood
Or forgot the first kind of like, not hit 'cause they weren't like a radio band. But like, the first time I got exposed to Kaas I was like, what the fuck? Like, these guys rip. Oh
Tab Salsman
yeah. It's funny you talked about Spike Jones. I, uh, I interviewed a guest and uh, I just reached out to my Instagram 'cause I saw him open up for Jim Brewer.
Speaker unclear
Mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
His name's Joseph Rip. And so I, he was talking about his band. I'm like, I, I never, I don't remember his band. I don't know who his band is. I don't know who Wax is or whatever. Right. And then I was like, I'm like, he made a, he made a comment about Wax and then off, off camera he's talking about Mall Rats.
Tab Salsman
I'm like, okay, I have to look this up. Yeah. I fucking remember the video. It's the guy slow motion running that Yeah. Is on fire. That's Spike Jones. I remember that from Beefs and Butthead. And so he was talking about Spike Jones. I was just like, fuck dude.
Mike Catherwood
That's on the cover of Spike's photography book, I believe is the guy the, the running.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. And I just remember it like being like a really big deal on MTV news about like, do you think it's gonna inspire kids? So like, like themselves on fire. I'm like, hopefully not. But if it does, you know, and I think it may have inspired Ramstein after that. We just need to light everything on fire.
Mike Catherwood
Well also like.
Mike Catherwood
That was my thing with Jackass where people were like, well, it's, is it gonna inspire people to fill in the blank? And I go like, that's on them.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Like, is it gonna inspire people to shoot their friends with paintball? I was like, that's on them. Let 'em do it. I hope it doesn't, but
Tab Salsman
my response to that, 'cause people would say that and I'd be like, I think it is just gonna cause 'em to film everything.
Tab Salsman
I go, they're already doing this shit,
Mike Catherwood
shit.
Tab Salsman
Like I, I've definitely done a lot of stupid shit in my life.
Mike Catherwood
You see this?
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
See that hole?
Tab Salsman
Uhhuh
Mike Catherwood
Hunter Forsyth shot me in the face with a BB gun who did? My friend Hunter Forsyth, who I'm still very close friends with, who's my daughter is friends with his daughters.
Mike Catherwood
We had a air gun fight.
Tab Salsman
Oh God.
Mike Catherwood
And we thought it was perfectly safe because we were wearing sunglasses.
Tab Salsman
Oh God, you forgot that there's more skin.
Mike Catherwood
I was, by the way, I, I wasn't 20. This happened when I was like, probably in fifth grade and I still have that mark right there. That's when, because as you pointed out, guys doing stupid shit
Tab Salsman
mm-hmm.
Tab Salsman
All the time.
Mike Catherwood
It didn't start with jackass, it's just they started filming it.
Tab Salsman
They, they, they, they capitalized on the stupidity of undeveloped prefrontal cortexes before they under the age of 25.
Mike Catherwood
Except I will, I will stick up for them. There's a reason why they were so good is 'cause they did it with a certain cleverness and, and the collection of guys and how they clearly liked each other and loved each and cared about each other so much.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. There was something very, it's weird, Steve's like one of my only like real, like big friends. Like he's my friend. Really? Steve's my friend.
Tab Salsman
Oh dude. He, he seems like he'd be just like a really cool guy.
Mike Catherwood
He seems Oh yeah, Steve's great. And he's, it's so funny 'cause he's like, he is, he is Thibo like, and you're sitting there talking to Yeah dude.
Mike Catherwood
But, but at the same day he's like, he's such a thoughtful,
Tab Salsman
also wild the
Mike Catherwood
guys find are always the sweetest guys. And, but, but on top, on Tom of sweet, like he's definitely a sweet guy. All those, all those jack dudes in my experience have been really nice guys. Really sweet, caring guys. But he's like, Steve's like, like a thoughtful, intelligent guy.
Mike Catherwood
But if you're like, you're Steve,
Tab Salsman
I get it, man. I get it. Like, uh, I was talking to somebody who was hanging out with Bama. He was out here in San Antonio and I was like, dude, tell him to come on over. Like, but uh, he's like, yeah. He's just like a really Ow dude,
Mike Catherwood
no. So sober Bam is great Sober Bam is great.
Mike Catherwood
He's a, he's a really, yeah, just a really like ambitious, hard charging smart guy.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Like using BAM is hard to be, it's difficult.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's, uh, I'm gonna take this just a little bit.
Mike Catherwood
The most amazing. I have a lot of like, you know, I would never want to talk outta turn. Especially there's a reason why anonymous is at the end of the 12 step
Tab Salsman
groups,
Mike Catherwood
but when you see it work, I, I love to expose that because A, to promote those people and all their, all their amazing work, but also to like, for people listening or maybe struggling, that there's, there's so many people that I have that are famous that like, I saw the difference.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And like no one, I'm trying to think if I to me number one, the most amazing transition I ever saw from someone getting clean is Travis Barker
Tab Salsman
Oh yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Never a meme guy. Never once, in fact, always very am amiable. Very easy to get along with, but just quiet, shy, like pulling teeth to get the guy to talk.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And he got clean and he's like, firecracker. He's like, Hey man, how are you? Oh yeah.
Tab Salsman
He, he proves my, my, one of my points about you can have a, a band that writes decent songs and then you switch out to the drummer and they become killer songs like Chad Chatty, great drummer, Dave Gro with Nirvana, completely different beast.
Tab Salsman
It was even the same thing with Queens of the Stone Age. That record where Dave Grohl is on the first thing I heard, I go, whoa, what's this band? They're like, it's Queen. I'm like, it's not Queen Estonia.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
I'm like, do you hear that? I go, that's a different drummer. Yeah. And then sure enough, somebody's like, oh no, I think Dave Bro quietly played on this.
Tab Salsman
Like, he wasn't trying to like. Make a big deal about it until he came out.
Mike Catherwood
Well, I, I mean, and I like Billy personally. Yeah. Corgan, I like, I I do, I really like him. I, he's one of the more misunderstood because he's one of the few like, really famous rock stars. Yeah. That's almost always very honest.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And I think that gets him in a lot of trouble, but I've always liked it. He would come on Loveline, he would just totally, he's be open. He's really approachable and talk, and again, smart guy, but I'm not, I'm not like a huge smashing pumpkin guy.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
But I'll listen to anything if fucking what, what's his name plays drums.
Mike Catherwood
Jimmy Chamberlain. Jimmy Chamberlain played. I'll listen to people read the, the phone book if Jimmy Chamberlain's gonna play the Drum.
Tab Salsman
Jimmy Chamberlain and I were messaging on Instagram because I was like, if you ever come to Austin, he's like, do I get a haircut? I'm like, that's the whole point of the whole hockey podcast.
Tab Salsman
Absolutely. And I'm like, dude, I, I, I, I hope it happens one day because he is one of my all time drummers. Like he's in the top 10 of, to me the greatest drummers of all time. Yeah. I I, he's one of those guys where like, he's playing such good shit. And I think like, if you're not a drummer, not musician, it goes off your head of like how complex what he's doing.
Mike Catherwood
Well, and also I, for the same reason, like my favorite guitar players, I've never been like Satriani or like Bucket Head or like, don't Get Wrong. I like those guys. I think they're, they're, they're, they're amazing. Yeah. But I always liked guys who ripped but could rip in the con in the, in the, in the context of a song.
Mike Catherwood
Steve Stevens, um,
Tab Salsman
yeah, I mean, Billy Idol.
Mike Catherwood
Uh,
Tab Salsman
do you ever listen to his, uh, Flamingo guitar album that he did?
Mike Catherwood
Jakey Lee Jake, because everyone talks about like Ozzy players and everyone goes with Randy, Randy Rhos and Zach. But I
Tab Salsman
go just because dude, those pinch Harmonic.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. Yeah. It'ss amazing.
Tab Salsman
I think he like sneezes, pinch Harmonics.
Tab Salsman
I think they'd be like a really funny video. Like Wild has Allergies. He just squeeze, breathes.
Mike Catherwood
Zach Wild is my number one. Like, oh, oh. It's different with people who do it for a living. Like
Tab Salsman
Yeah,
Mike Catherwood
he would come in to Loveline and we always had these like guitars on the wall, but they were, they were props, you know, like, they'd be like, record labels would give them to us to, to put it up a kroc to commemorate like a, a gold record or something, you know?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. And he would take one off the wall at commercial breaks. It'd be completely out of tune and shit. And then he'd just, as he's talking, like having full conversations, not like, like, what'd you say? What, he's having a full open conversation? Yeah, he's tuning and playing and then, and then just be doing like spot on, fucking like the scales all the way up and down and just bulletproof.
Mike Catherwood
And I was like, oh. There's a difference with people who are,
Tab Salsman
I had that same experience with John five.
Mike Catherwood
Oh, oh, yeah.
Tab Salsman
Like he,
Mike Catherwood
I told on five and the Kid, the story about when I had that experience with John five, I was at Nam with John five.
Tab Salsman
Oh God.
Mike Catherwood
And there was a, and I was, 'cause I was friends with people who used to tour with him, not with Manson, when he would do his solo stuff.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah,
Tab Salsman
yeah,
Mike Catherwood
yeah. And so he was, and he was cool. He was like, nicest guy. Yeah. Super cool. But we were walking around at Na and people were fucking lying trying to get all that, and he's like, just, he was being cool, but we were trying to, and they had a booth that told, uh, that sold like, they were Japanese, like toy anime guitars.
Mike Catherwood
Oh, wow. And they had one that was like, hello Kitty car. Carro, carpi. And they had like Pokemon ones and shit, but they were like this big. Yeah. You know, and he's like, check this out. And he picked it up. Right.
Tab Salsman
Uhhuh.
Mike Catherwood
And the guy, the course, the guy at the booth was like, here, plug it in. Go play. Please play.
Mike Catherwood
And they were trying to get video. This is before smartphone, so people were like trying to film and shit. And he plugs it in and I'm telling you, it's like this big. Yeah. And he puts it and he, and he's standing. So he just puts it against his waist. Yeah. And he starts going and like, like crazy bends and harmonics with his fingers, not with a whammy bar and everything.
Mike Catherwood
It's attitude he's playing. Just starts tooting it. And he gets, and I'm like, whoa, whoa. Holy shit. Like I really couldn't wait. He was finger tapping and like nailing it. It's like one of those things like, I will bitch and moan about my equipment all day. Yeah. Like, clearly he doesn't, it doesn't matter what he's playing.
Mike Catherwood
He'll fucking
Tab Salsman
wreck. Yeah. It's like that. There's a thing like, uh, my friend's a chef and like we talk about this with like, you can have the sharpest scissors, the sharpest knives in, in the drawer if you don't know how to use 'em.
Mike Catherwood
Some people cut like shit. Yeah.
Tab Salsman
They still cut like shit. Yeah. And he's, I, he was backstage.
Tab Salsman
It was a rub zombie show. We're just talking and he is walking around with little amp on there, and he's like doing like all of his like bluegrass chicken picking, and then goes straight into like our ated sweeps and then tapping. And he's like, yeah. So anyways, you know, last Tuesday I'm like, wait, wait, wait.
Tab Salsman
I, I have to like concentrate if I'm gonna play eruption.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
You know, I'm like, and he's,
Mike Catherwood
oh no, he's fucking conversation.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. Like, he could probably have like, taken his hands off of it and the, the guitar would've still just been tapping on itself
Mike Catherwood
in the
Tab Salsman
opposite direction. Just get your nose hairs real quick.
Mike Catherwood
Yes, please.
Tab Salsman
Because I, you keep touching your nose and I'm like, I'm not cutting you, dude.
Mike Catherwood
Oh, no, no, no. It has nothing to do with cutting. It's, um,
Tab Salsman
it tickles.
Mike Catherwood
I shattered my face.
Tab Salsman
Oh.
Mike Catherwood
About a year, a little over a year ago.
Tab Salsman
But I remember that after I on, I was like, holy fuck, what happened?
Mike Catherwood
Um, this whole shatter, I mean, it shattered my face.
Tab Salsman
Why?
Mike Catherwood
I wish I could say it was something tough. I was sleepwalking and I woke up with a broken face. Oh my God. I shattered on the table. Anyway, since I had it happened, luckily, I, I recovered again since it happened. Any, any pressure. I mean, uh, even you touch like this.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
It's so ticklish here.
Tab Salsman
Okay, well,
Mike Catherwood
so I don't know if I did like nerve damage.
Tab Salsman
He rewired it to be super ticklish. All right. So how do you feel about this?
Mike Catherwood
I think it looks great, man.
Tab Salsman
I think it looks fun.
Mike Catherwood
You nailed it,
Tab Salsman
dude. And you have like a, a fun little thing back here. It's like kind of like lived in. Yes. But not like you got it. Well,
Mike Catherwood
and I could get up in the morning and go out and feel confident and not have to wear a hat.
Tab Salsman
Exactly. Which is exactly what I wanna do. Exactly. And then, uh, I'm just gonna put, yeah, I'm gonna put a little bit of this in. Gonna put a little product in and then you can put pal, dry your hair, put product in, then call it today. Something easy, man. You have like really good fixed straight hair.
Mike Catherwood
Thank you,
Tab Salsman
sir.
Tab Salsman
So it's like instead of trying to move your hair to the right or the left, like just do something fun and short, like messy. I'm telling you. Uh,
Mike Catherwood
like Lionel messy or like
Tab Salsman
dude fight club. Messy.
Mike Catherwood
Oh,
Tab Salsman
that's like the best messy haircut. My buddy Andrew and I constantly talk about like, well there's these iconic men's haircuts and like Brad Pit has had a few of them.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah,
Tab Salsman
that's true. And David Beckham as well. But when it comes to who I think is the haircut that most men could wear, it's cycl.
Mike Catherwood
But here's a, okay. I'm glad you brought that up. As a professional in that field,
Tab Salsman
as
Mike Catherwood
a professional as, as, as, as someone who's a professional in other fields. Fight Club is the number one male physique goal of all, all dudes.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. And
Tab Salsman
me too.
Mike Catherwood
I never have met, I have maybe two personal acquaintances Yeah. Where I go like, okay, that's achievable.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Because I, you know, like even me, I've been shredded Shred city more than, I can't hope to be Tyler Durden because I'm five, nine and a half.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And I am blocky. I already, I came out of the womb with like a wide waist and like wide shoulders and stuff like that.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. Now Tom Hardy in Warrior. Sure. Totally. Maybe I've even been more jacked than that, but I'll never be. And then I, I have these people, especially sometimes not, not even buddies of mine, like there'll be people I work with.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
And they're like college age dudes with Man t*ts and they're like, I just wanna look like Brad Pitt and Fight Club.
Mike Catherwood
I was like, well that's, it doesn't matter how much dr*gs you take, it's like, that's not gonna happen because you
Tab Salsman
call 'em man t*ts I call 'em he Hooters. That's what I've always called them. He Hooters.
Mike Catherwood
He Hooters is pretty, pretty, especially since it's like a little more family friendly.
Tab Salsman
Yeah, it is. Yeah. Oh God, that reminds me, um, you wanna hear a, a really dumb story about me and Lou Ferrigno
Mike Catherwood
Yes.
Tab Salsman
Okay. Okay. So growing up in the nineties, late nineties, right. Late eighties, early nineties, that mid nineties thing, uh, anyone who was ripped was from another country.
Mike Catherwood
Okay.
Tab Salsman
Think about Rocky.
Mike Catherwood
Sure.
Tab Salsman
Dolf Gram right.
Mike Catherwood
Wait a second. I'm
Tab Salsman
sorry.
Mike Catherwood
Rocky was from Philadelphia.
Tab Salsman
No, not, I'm saying the movie Rocky.
Tab Salsman
Like you had
Mike Catherwood
Oh, you had Ivan Drago. Okay. Ivan, yes.
Tab Salsman
Ivan Drago. Right. You had
Mike Catherwood
Sean Van Dam.
Tab Salsman
Sean Dam. Right. You got all these guys from like Eastern Arnold Arnold, right. Most famously. Right. So it's like 1999 ComicCon. Okay. San Diego. My cousin Wes and I are there and we see the booth for Johnny, the Homicidal Maniac.
Tab Salsman
Okay. Which is one of the greatest comic books ever. Who else did Innovators in? So we're there greatest
Mike Catherwood
title?
Tab Salsman
Oh fuck Yeah, it's great. If you haven't watched, if you haven't read it, people It's great's. It's dark, it's fucked up. And all
Mike Catherwood
my, my experience with comics is like Archie.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I'm not,
Tab Salsman
so Johnny Homicide Maniac is, is great.
Tab Salsman
Right next to them is Lou Fer Rno. Right. And he's selling calendars of him in like banana hammocks, like neon green bananas, like Rip. And he is, you know, signed whatever. And this is during a brief moment in my adolescence where my cousin Wes and I, and uh, another friend of ours, Matt, we were getting, we were habitually signing up for these seven day pass at 24 Hour Fitness.
Tab Salsman
Okay. 'cause we were like, I was like, I wait like 1 35
Mike Catherwood
and you're like, I'm gonna be jacked.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. We're, I'm like, I gotta figure out like, and so, and my cousin looked like an overweight Seth Green.
Mike Catherwood
Okay.
Tab Salsman
So he's redhead. Imagine Seth Green, but just like heavy. So we go up in all sincerity, we go. Hey man, like if we wanna like put on some like muscle and weight, like what, what should we do?
Tab Salsman
Like what, what should I do with the gym? Is it the Hulk? I'm gonna ask the Hulk. He's like very funny pencil neck. He and my cousin goes, ah, he called you pencil neck. He's like, and then Lou goes, what are you left in that fatty?
Mike Catherwood
Oh,
Tab Salsman
right. And then my cousin and I have a little bit of a sharp tongue when you upset us.
Tab Salsman
So we just start like, like annihilate him with like insults. Now what we ha what had happened is later on, after we left the people in the booth were like, oh, he's been a jerk all weekend. And I was like, oh, well I guess he had it coming. What I told him, by way, there's a whole story. It's like a 10 year gap in the story.
Tab Salsman
I told him, I go, I said something and he's like, what? And I go, what are you fucking deaf or, or something reading my fucking lips.
Mike Catherwood
Oh shit,
Tab Salsman
hang on. I didn't know he was hard of hearing, so I'm so the movie, oh
Mike Catherwood
no, he's not. He's deaf.
Tab Salsman
Oh, I
Mike Catherwood
know. Legally. Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. So what happened is there's this whole series, that movie, I Love You Man, and there's this scene where Lou Frig knows getting, I'm in a headlock and I go, man, I, I swear I was almost that close again in a headlock with Lou.
Tab Salsman
So I'm telling my client and he goes, I can't believe you told that, like you're a jerk. And I go, what are you talking about? He goes. Don't, you know, he's legally deaf. That's his whole journey. His whole thing about how he became Mr. Olympian, this, that, and I'm like, wait, wait, wait. He talks funny because he's hard of hearing.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. He goes, how do you not know? I go, I thought he was from Eastern Europe. 'cause he talked different, like all the other bodybuilder youth in my youth. Like, you know, he's John Claude Band. Damn. He's from
Mike Catherwood
the Bronx.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. I didn't know this. I didn't know this. And here I feel so bad. I feel so bad that I told Lou Farco, who's legally deaf.
Tab Salsman
Wait, you don't know what I'm saying? Read my fucking lips. One of the worst things I could have ever said, but I had no idea. I just thought he sounded different.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Like Arnold sounded different. Or Jean Co flying Dip. I'm like, well, I don't know what part of European's from, but that's how he sounds when he speaks English.
Tab Salsman
It was like, totally like, and that was my, and after that I was like, fuck those meathead. Call me pencil neck.
Mike Catherwood
Understandable.
Tab Salsman
Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. Well, you know what? I don't give a fuck what you, he has no business calling random people pencil. No,
Tab Salsman
but I think, but I guess he said he, that everybody around him said he was like, just like cranky the whole time.
Tab Salsman
And I'm like, maybe, maybe sending, like trying to sell like photos of you in like Speedos flexing is probably the wrong crowd for, for Comic Con.
Mike Catherwood
Well also I've gotten, and I This is from people in the Yeah. In the bodybuilding and not even Yeah, the fitness, uh, the entertainment world. He's. It's pretty well known to be pretty hard to get along with, so.
Mike Catherwood
Oh,
Tab Salsman
you really?
Mike Catherwood
Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. Well, well, I don't know. Anyways, this is my apology. I'm, I'm putting out to the universe. I'm sorry Lou didn't know. Um, I feel like saying something, but I'm not gonna say it'd be bad.
Mike Catherwood
I wanted to be a porn star. I was gonna be goof right now. No,
Tab Salsman
that's funny. That's great. Alright. Uh, your book is called Meatheads Guide to To Salvation.
Tab Salsman
To Salvation. Yes. And you're sprawled out there on the, on the cover. Yes. They can pick it up
Mike Catherwood
with I'm in, uh, I'm in B Cave Texas in that picture.
Tab Salsman
Oh, right. That's, yeah, that's right. That's Boston. Where
Mike Catherwood
at My cath wood on Instagram. That's always the best place to find me, but there's a link to it in
Tab Salsman
my, it's Mike Catherwood.
Mike Catherwood
At Mike Catherwood. Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Okay.
Mike Catherwood
And, and, uh, and there's links everywhere. My YouTube, everything has the link to a meatheads Guide to Salvation, because it is at my Shopify channel and I'm sure, look, I think it's meathead salvation slash shopify.com. I don't know, but it's,
Tab Salsman
it's there.
Mike Catherwood
Yeah. You know. Okay. Mike has, you find me.
Mike Catherwood
You will find that. And that isn't, but, uh, there's training video, uh, training manuals to come, training books, and I'm really excited about flexing the city, the female specific training books. So please, you should check that out.
Tab Salsman
Yeah. By the time this comes out, it will be out, I believe. So.
Mike Catherwood
Flexing the city.
Tab Salsman
Flexing the city. Do you, uh, it's a book, right?
Mike Catherwood
Yes. Yeah.
Tab Salsman
Okay, cool. Not videos. Not you dressed up as a, a lady doing flux in the city stuff. You're not dressed as Carrie.
Mike Catherwood
I did the,
Tab Salsman
not gonna get the narration.
Mike Catherwood
I did the AI picture of that and then, oh God, I was this close to being like, it's good. Right? My wife's like, you fucking can't,
Tab Salsman
you can't do that.
Mike Catherwood
What do you, what do you like, what are you thinking?
Tab Salsman
You're like, I wasn't, I was thinking this was funny.
Mike Catherwood
I thought it w Yeah. 'cause it, well 'cause I used my body and my face so I didn't just put my face on her body.
Tab Salsman
Oh, that would've, that that would've been different. Yeah.
Mike Catherwood
I, AI did. So it's like, it was like my arms coming out of her dress and stuff.
